Custom Map: Quagmire Quest 1: The Golden Maze

[Sqaz]

It certainly is expert only, but qua fun-factor this is your second worst map (Bored to Death included), yes, it's expert only, but it's way too frustrating when how many SAMs you have some spores can just pop up, land together and destroy half your network, and all "caps" (which happened to me twice), for your next maps please don't use spores anymore, they're a nice challenge in the beginning, but later on they just become irritating things that you'll forget about.

I now saw I just don't like brute force maps, regardless of the tactics that you need for it. One small inattention and boom there goes a collector connecting a whole part of the labyrinth or worse a blaster, and even though you can win with 3 of them less it still ruins the game.

I understand that some of you (or most of you) might love this map, but it just isn't my cup of tea, staying attentive for 30min, and keeping track of all possible blaster placements, spore progressions and such (which is even more hateful when the speed is only half of what it normally is (at the end it was only 14.7 frames/second).

[SPIFFEN]

I also hate spore attacks , thats why i overbuild sam's incase my Blasters are busy .
it sucks when an spore manage to get throw and destroy your connection .
But atleat you have info about the spore attacks here ,
so it's kind of okey , and yes it's easy to forget them , as always =P

[burguertime]

staying attentive for 30min,

keeping track of all possible blaster placements,

spore progressions and such

That's KEES play style. I remember somewhere he said he plays with a finger on "P" key and pauses to micromanage his gameplay to the finest details.

For him this brute force maps are not a problem, he can spot one droplet of creeper going the wrong way the moment it thinks to go there, and react accordingly.

It is a clockwork engine.

But yes, spores are challenging in the beginning, annoying in the end. You end up putting so much SAM overlaying in the end that you can't see nothing over the white translucid circles.

Too bad there's no way to turn them off after a while

[UpperKEES]

it's way too frustrating when how many SAMs you have some spores can just pop up, land together and destroy half your network, and all "caps" (which happened to me twice), for your next maps please don't use spores anymore, they're a nice challenge in the beginning, but later on they just become irritating things that you'll forget about.

As you probably know I use spores for only about 20% of my maps, because I don't like the random factor either. In a maze however, it becomes a very strategical element, because you can't always place your SAMs where you would like to.

Spoiler

My advise is to create tiny groups of them as close to the bottom of your screen as possible. There's only 5 of them, so you can eliminate the random factor completely!

[close]

I understand that some of you (or most of you) might love this map, but it just isn't my cup of tea

That's fine of course. :) I have learned over the past 36 maps I released that it's impossible to please everyone at the same time (although I tried!). It's not only the difference in experience, but also a matter of taste and we could talk endlessly about that. The only thing I can do is offer a wide variety of maps, so that's what I try. The other maps to come will be completely different, so I'm sure there will be one of your likings.

staying attentive for 30min, and keeping track of all possible blaster placements, spore progressions and such (which is even more hateful when the speed is only half of what it normally is (at the end it was only 14.7 frames/second).

Funny that you mention this, because Kap has been experimenting with this while he played this map yesterday (hence his score). It turns out that the path finding algorithm is responsible for these slow downs. You can actually play at double speed and still play slower than you normally would.

When you would change your network structure (more single connections and more dead-ends instead of a heavily interconnected network), you would be able to increase your frames per second from 14 to 36 FPS! So this is not something that has to do with the map (although you need to build quite some units to finish), but due to the program design. Luckily CW2 will calculate a packet path only once!

atleat you have info about the spore attacks here ,
so it's kind of okey , and yes it's easy to forget them , as always =P

I think so yes; forgetting about them is your own mistake and part of the game. Almost every Tower Defence game has airborne enemies and they are always the worst ones, just like in real life! 8)

Creeper type: Land & air

I always indicate if my maps contain spores, so you don't even have to download it when you don't like them. Most of my maps don't feature them however....

That's KEES play style. I remember somewhere he said he plays with a finger on "P" key and pauses to micromanage his gameplay to the finest details.

For him this brute force maps are not a problem, he can spot one droplet of creeper going the wrong way the moment it thinks to go there, and react accordingly.

Yes, I do play rather precise, but I only pause about every 10-15 seconds. I know Kapoios for instance pauses almost every second, hence his great scores. A good score takes time and you have to be willing to sacrifice that or else just be happy with finishing the map.

spores are challenging in the beginning, annoying in the end. You end up putting so much SAM overlaying in the end that you can't see nothing over the white translucid circles.

Well, I played this map about 5 times during testing and never ever built more than 10 SAMs. Just once a part of my network collapsed, and this was in the bottom right corner. I just conquered that part and forgot to move a SAM there, so 100% my own fault. It's exactly the reason I included them: punish stupid mistakes! :P

[burguertime]

:P

Next Please! =P

[Sqaz]

Well, I'm not willing nor able to spend enough time to get a top-score, but you could for instance stop the spore waves after Xminutes, cause at the end they only punish inattentiveness, which causes the player the shout "Goddamn you motherf............" and hate your map (what happened to me quite some times).
So I understand you can't make maps at everyone's liking, but you can try to make map at less people's hating.

But I'm mostly focussing on the bad points of your map, maybe without that path to the left from in the middle it would be more about strategy, as I love the lay-out of the paths on the right, as they kinda force you to paratroop and use good placement, but I can't focus on that if I have to take care about the other paths which also could go wrong.

What I'm missing though is some kind of story, the background are nice, I don't doubt the gameplay of the other maps will be great, but a story line would top it off. It's called the Quagmire Quest, but why?

[UpperKEES]

Next Please! =P

Quagmire Quests 2 to 4 are already done, but I will only release 1 of them per week, just like I used to do with my previous series. QQ-2 is one of my personal favourites, but like I said: you have to be able to appreciate a puzzle map (although some fighting is included as well).

So I understand you can't make maps at everyone's liking, but you can try to make map at less people's hating.

I just repeat this:

Almost every Tower Defence game has airborne enemies and they are always the worst ones, just like in real life! 8)

Creeper type: Land & air

I always indicate if my maps contain spores, so you don't even have to download it when you don't like them. Most of my maps don't feature them however....

If you absolutely can't stand them, just skip the map. I really don't mind; I skip for instance crazonium maps myself, but never go posting in the comments: "I don't like crazonium!". That would be like walking into the butcher shop and yelling: "I'm a vegetarian!" ;D

But I'm mostly focussing on the bad points of your map, maybe without that path to the left from in the middle it would be more about strategy, as I love the lay-out of the paths on the right, as they kinda force you to paratroop and use good placement, but I can't focus on that if I have to take care about the other paths which also could go wrong.

I'm glad you mention this, because it's indeed an easy thing to do: mention the things you didn't like, in particular after some frustration. Especially people with some perfectionistic tendencies tend to do so (and believe me I know, because I used to do this myself! ;)). So nice to read you also liked some parts. :)

My personal believe is that maps that frustrated you for a while give most satisfaction in the end. This could be my personal preference, but hey, they're my maps! ;)

What I'm missing though is some kind of story, the background are nice, I don't doubt the gameplay of the other maps will be great, but a story line would top it off. It's called the Quagmire Quest, but why?

Also good you mention this. I have considered adding some more background story, but I didn't for 2 reasons:

1. I like my maps to be playable in any order (so you can pick the ones you like and skip the ones you think you'll hate). This will make more people play them, as there's no pressure to finish all of them. I believe this is one of the reasons that the Nice Job series became a success.
2. I like to concentrate on the game play. I can write very nice stories (and you know that better than anyone else here ;)), but I rather use my blog site for that. I know a lot of people even skip the opening text and artifacts because they only have 1 hour to play and just want to be fighting the creeper or solve a puzzle. Most people already read enough for their work and/or education.

But to clarify something: a quagmire is a wetland. It's also a synonym for a difficult, precarious, or entrapping position. :)

[Sqaz]

If you absolutely can't stand them, just skip the map. I really don't mind; I skip for instance crazonium maps myself, but never go posting in the comments: "I don't like crazonium!". That would be like walking into the butcher shop and yelling: "I'm a vegetarian!" ;D

It's more like going to a buffet, yelling "I'm a vegetarian" but to get the delicious vegetables you have to eat the disgusting meat.

1. I like my maps to be playable in any order (so you can pick the ones you like and skip the ones you think you'll hate). This will make more people play them, as there's no pressure to finish all of them. I believe this is one of the reasons that the Nice Job series became a success.
2. I like to concentrate on the game play. I can write very nice stories (and you know that better than anyone else here ;), but I rather use my blog site for that). I know a lot of people even skip the opening text and artifacts because they only have 1 hour to play and just want to be fighting the creeper or solve a puzzle. Most people already read enough for their work and/or education.

Well, skipping an artifact or intro is just a push of a button, if you don't want the story just press continue. But I know your writing talents so you should make a background story I think.

[UpperKEES]

It's more like going to a buffet, yelling "I'm a vegetarian" but to get the delicious vegetables you have to eat the disgusting meat.

And that's exactly the reason my buffet currently offers 36 dishes, probably about 26-30 of them without meat. ;) Enjoy the vegetables!

Well, skipping an artifact or intro is just a push of a button, if you don't want the story just press continue. But I know your writing talents so you should make a background story I think.

Yeah, maybe a nice idea for another series (CW2?).

By the way, I forgot to mention an important third reason: I will introduce something completely new in QQ-3 and this already takes up 2 full screens of intro text plus 2 artifacts. There's just no room for more story there (although it's a story on its own).

[Sqaz]

It's more like going to a buffet, yelling "I'm a vegetarian" but to get the delicious vegetables you have to eat the disgusting meat.

And that's exactly the reason my buffet currently offers 36 dishes, probably about 26-30 of them without meat. ;) Enjoy the vegetables!

Yes, but I want this dish, I don't want to miss the first part of your new series. If I hadn't tried this I'd never be aware of the possibility of making 0 and 7 elevation terrain.

[UpperKEES]

Yes, but I want this dish, I don't want to miss the first part of your new series. If I hadn't tried this I'd never be aware of the possibility of making 0 and 7 elevation terrain.

Then chew quickly and swallow the meat for just one time. It won't kill vegetarians.... ;)

[Kapoios]

If anyone can finish with just 18 of the 21 blasters without bridging I'm very much interested in a screenshot! I'm actually already interested in someone who finishes with just 19 (without bridging OC or destroying the blaster after connecting to the last totem; just leave it in its tower ;)).

I count 28 blasters, so I take it you meant "25 out of the 28 blasters". I have managed to do that. Here's what one can do:

Spoiler

Basically, I use two blasters to not-quite-Kap each of the 12 sets of emitters, except the one on the mid-right, which I haven't found a way to defend with only two blasters. The situation in the screeshot is stable, as I've let it run for 10 game minutes and no blasters or other structures got any damage. I cheated, by designing the left half of the network in the level editor, as I didn't want to play it properly again, because the large network needed is a bit taxing on my CPU and the game becomes slow. However, as I only did the left part in the editor and properly played the rest, it is definitely a situation reachable in game. I also counted the blasters 2-3 times, to make sure I didn't accidentally duplicate any! In case you wonder how I managed to approach the last set of emitters without an extra blaster, I left the one on the left last (the one that in the screeshot doesn't have charged totems) which can be defended by one blaster but needs two to be Kapped.

[close]

I love these new spoiler boxes. Though, admittedly, my experience is that once I get used to them, I simply click them without thinking so they don't fulfil their purpose very well!

[Colin]

True Kap, but I haven't played this map yet, nor have I looked at the spoilers!  :P  It is up to everyone to hold themselves back enough to not press the button. . .  :D

[UpperKEES]

I count 28 blasters, so I take it you meant "25 out of the 28 blasters".

Oh, I must have lived with a very old number in my head. The initial version only had 21 and I created this map a while ago.... Will correct this in my previous posts, thanks! :)

In case you wonder how I managed to approach the last set of emitters without an extra blaster, I left the one on the left last (the one that in the screeshot doesn't have charged totems) which can be defended by one blaster but needs two to be Kapped.

Smart! This is something I should actually have made part of the puzzle, even when this would have kept some people from completing it....

I love these new spoiler boxes. Though, admittedly, my experience is that once I get used to them, I simply click them without thinking so they don't fulfil their purpose very well!

It is up to everyone to hold themselves back enough to not press the button. . .  :D

Yep, I like them too, but for my next map I'm gonna ask anyone not to post spoilers for the first 2-3 weeks, or maybe not at all. It takes just one weak moment to click them and ruin the puzzle, so I rather add them later on when everybody had a chance to think for themselves. The map won't run away. ;)

[Kapoios]

Oh, I must have lived with a very old number in my head. The initial version only had 21 and I created this map a while ago.... Will correct this in my previous posts, thanks! :)

I experimented a bit and it turns out I also found a way to defend that mid-right set of emitters with only 2 blasters. So, although not optimal at all for a highscore (you should probably use all your blasters for a good time, or at least leave only 1-2 in their homes so that they can serve as a kind of bridge between areas to make distances a bit smaller). I have a new screenshot using only 24 out of 28. This time, some of the extra 4 blasters I'm not using are not in their little homes, but sitting beside OC disarmed and deactivated. That's because I used them to do some shuffling more easily, but the situation is still reachable without ever removing them from their homes, since you could do that early when you still have plenty of them. Note that this time some creeper leaks near that area. However, it "evaporates" quickly enough not to damage any structures. Again, the situation is stable, since I let it run for ~10 minutes, while going to the store to get booze and back, and everything was alive and kicking when I returned!