"Fixed" maps

[Karsten75]

Many times someone posts a map and it gets beaten in far less time than the author anticipated. Then the author follows some of the advice posted regarding the map and bring out a "fixed" map or a V1.1 or an update or whatever they wish to call it.

I'm finding this tedious. I don't like playing the same map twice, even if it is harder the second time round - many times the author even has a "you want hard? I'll show you impossible1" attitude to the comments and revises the map to remove all the fun.

OTOH, I realize that some map makers might forget to add a vital tech to a map or that a map may be more playable if Thor is not in the list of initial techs.

What is the general consensus of folks around here on map updates? Do you like map updates?

Would it be better to have map authors upload maps here for beta testing first? I can see a lot of downside with putting a lot of maps in the forums, but at the same time I'm wondering if putting maps here will lead to higher map quality on the download page?

[GVS]

Would it be better to have map authors upload maps here for beta testing first? I can see a lot of downside with putting a lot of maps in the forums, but at the same time I'm wondering if putting maps here will lead to higher map quality on the download page?

I totally agree with you, but as for if I like map updates, I guess it depends on the map. For example: a lot of my maps were the wrong maps(impossible) and thus required me to resubmit the correct map. If that's the case, then I'm totally fine with that.

many times the author even has a "you want hard? I'll show you impossible1" attitude to the comments and revises the map to remove all the fun.

but if that type of thing is happening, I'm totally against the update.
And for moderators who have to revise the map for submission, its most likely really tedious in both cases.

I think the forum beta-testing is a good idea. :)

[Xylnalya]

I'd definetly vote for updating maps.

I do see your point, though. There's of course your side, having to play the map over again. On the other hand there's unneccessary changes or impossible difficulty upgrades - This sure shouldn't be a valid reason to allow an update. However, there are other very good reasons to allow updates. Since we're all humans we all make mistakes and having two almost similiar version of the same map isn't a nice thing to have. It doubles the filespace used for comments, scores, etc. and is, at least would be, for my maps, a very frustrating thing to see two versions if one's utterly unwanted or faulty.

I'm unsure about the beta testing on the forums - I'd rather have it a seperate side such as the custom maps one, where you could upload your maps. No idea how you'd manage that exactly, though.

[UpperKEES]

I am against map updates in general:

- Maps that turn out to be not as hard as intended: bad luck, someone was smarter than you. Find out how, learn from it and use your knowledge for new maps.
- Maps that 'forgot' something, like a tech or reachable totem: this will be prevented by posting a score by the map maker. If you were too lazy to do so, then don't ask others to replay almost the same map.

Regarding beta testing custom maps: I first suggested (somewhere) to open a dedicated thread for this, but I guess it would be better to ask just 1 or 2 people you know well to test it for you. When a map gets posted in a thread, people will not play it any more once uploaded and approved, so it won't get as many scores submitted.

[SPIFFEN]

Just to add something ,
many times when i save my custom map on my own computer ,
the OCity doesnt get moved where i moved it ,
when i start it in the game for testing =/

So this makes me save the map many times before it works ,
and i dont know if other things also might change ,
with the OC its easy to see this error .

But if players could delete their own custom maps that is'nt working ,
the custom map page would be a little cleeaner .
Still this does'nt make the job easyier for approval .

[Karsten75]

But if players could delete their own custom maps that is'nt working ,
the custom map page would be a little cleeaner .

There are a number of issues with this.

It is unfair to people who played a map to simply delete the map and send all their scores into a bit bucket in the sky.

There is no registration involved with maps, so there is no way to associate any person with an uploaded map to verify who can or cannot delete a map.

Ownership of an uploaded map transfers to Knucklecracker - so technically you have no rights to the map anymore.

[SPIFFEN]

But if players could delete their own custom maps that is'nt working ,
the custom map page would be a little cleeaner .

If you read it again , you see that this should be for map that does'nt work .
But it would cleen up the custom map page if those maps could be deleted somehow .

So if there could be added something that the map could be deleted if the mapmaker want it to be ,
because it doesnt work ,
then it would be easyier to delete those maps if Knucklecracker also want the map to be deleted .

An map with no score for some time should be deleted ,
like 30 days or something .

[Blaze]

An map with no score for some time should be deleted ,
like 30 days or something .

No. That wouldn't really be fair.

But it would force authors to pre-upload a score.

[Sqaz]

I don't think any possible map can stay 30 days without a score, almost every map has scores now, so having no score probably means that it's impossible.

I think it would be a fair and good rule.

[Timwi]

Two points:

1) I think the majority of maps that require "updates" are those which are impossible because the author didn't play them. I would like to repeat a suggestion I made earlier which perhaps drowned out in the forum: simply don't allow to submit maps that have never been solved. Require the uploader to play the map first and submit their score before submitting the map.

2) "Ownership of an uploaded map transfers to Knucklecracker - so technically you have no rights to the map anymore." This is not true; this is propaganda. In most countries, copyright to a creative work remains with the original author no matter what website(s) that author uploads it to and now matter what "disclaimers" or "agreements" are printed on that website. In the U.S., the author can relinquish their copyright, but they can only make it public domain that way, not transfer ownership to KnuckleCracker. (This is only in theory. In practice, of course, nobody is going to hire a lawyer just to sue over a CreeperWorld map.)

[Daos]

I am not a fan of the "submit scores first"-style. The purpose is great, but in my case, I prefer to "create" more, than "play". On some maps I betatest until I can see "this will be beatable" and exit then. In addition, I would have to play/win a map twice, because a betatested map will not submit it's scores.

I like the "delete after x days without scores", maybe with an anouncement a few days ahead, so the creator has a chance to submit a score if he wants to keep his map online.

[UpperKEES]

I've played all my maps (4 in stock now) about 20 times, after every alteration, although not always to the end. If playing your own map (your creation and 'piece of art') twice is already too boring, then why would this map be interesting to others?

I play my maps not only to see whether it can be finished or not, but also to find out if it will be a real challenge, if there are ways to rush it (within 2 minutes or so), what would happen when I try things in a different order, how the creeper will flow after 15 minutes, etc., etc. How can you know whether a map can be finished if you don't know what the creeper will do after that pool got filled up?

I see too many maps from people that haven't posted their own score (some saying: I'm not skilled enough to beat it myself). If you're not skilled enough, you're also not skilled enough to be a good map maker, as you should know where the bottlenecks are and how to solve them. Or are the tough parts just created by accident?

Starting from today I won't play (new!) maps any more that don't have a score submitted by the creator. This has a second reason: what is more fun than beating the mapmaker himself? Give me that chance! ;)

[Blaze]

I've played all my maps (4 in stock now) about 20 times, after every alteration, although not always to the end. If playing your own map (your creation and 'piece of art') twice is already too boring, then why would this map be interesting to others?

I play my maps not only to see whether it can be finished or not, but also to find out if it will be a real challenge, if there are ways to rush it (within 2 minutes or so), what would happen when I try things in a different order, how the creeper will flow after 15 minutes, etc., etc. How can you know whether a map can be finished if you don't know what the creeper will do after that pool got filled up?

I see too many maps from people that haven't posted their own score (some saying: I'm not skilled enough to beat it myself). If you're not skilled enough, you're also not skilled enough to be a good map maker, as you should know where the bottlenecks are and how to solve them. Or are the tough parts just created by accident?

Starting from today I won't play (new!) maps any more that don't have a score submitted by the creator. This has a second reason: what is more fun than beating the mapmaker himself? Give me that chance! ;)

Well then you can play my maps and beat me. Since i heard of the "Submit your score to make it top priority" I have been playing my maps multiple times. The last time to submit a score.

And to keep it on topic, I hate it when people make impossible maps just because someone beats it faster then them.

[Pigster]

Starting from today I won't play (new!) maps any more that don't have a score submitted by the creator. This has a second reason: what is more fun than beating the mapmaker himself? Give me that chance! ;)

Sorry for blowing my own trumpet, but the two maps I've posted so far I've played LOTS of times over before posting them. Then I've played them again and again to try to beat my own score. You're welcome to pick up my gauntlet!