Creeper Vacuum

[Eric]

I think the vacuum / bomb is like cheating if used this way. If there is going to be a vacuum there should be things we can only do with recycled creeper like make frozen creeper or infuse it into the dirt. This would allow the player to make a creeper shield or an automated attack once the enemy creeper erodes an infused part of the ground.

[Mister_Andy]

I think it'd be nice to actually have storage tank structures you have to build (must be on top of land, like reactors).

Several levels have a pretty limiting amount of land to build on, and you have to make tactical decisions about the balance of energy/tech structures.

Well, if you have to build the storage structures on that same limited area, then it becomes another tough choice that can make or break your attempt at defeating the creeper, and you become more invested in it. :D

[ontheworld]

You guys shouldn't forget that if you'd burst out your ore supplies it's equal to letting your maker run just a few seconds longer...

[Eric]

You guys shouldn't forget that if you'd burst out your ore supplies it's equal to letting your maker run just a few seconds longer...

we already have conversion bombs, if a player wants to reuse your AC that badly they can use repulsors and shields. If the vacuum is just going to be for custom maps than it should be its own unit and not an ability of a maker. Also burst mode should be a tech upgrade for the makers. busting should kill the maker too now that I think about it

[Sqaz]

You guys shouldn't forget that if you'd burst out your ore supplies it's equal to letting your maker run just a few seconds longer...

we already have conversion bombs, if a player wants to reuse your AC that badly they can use repulsors and shields. If the vacuum is just going to be for custom maps than it should be its own unit and not an ability of a maker. Also burst mode should be a tech upgrade for the makers. busting should kill the maker too now that I think about it

Bursting is actually not as strong as it seems. Making it a tech upgrade or destroying the maker would render it almost useless.
You already have to upgrade your ore supplies and can't use any ore from remnants (atleast not directly). As far as I know it's only very useful when trying to build a nullifier near a very strong emitter, cause when using it in an ordinary fight it isn't strong enough to push the creeper away (not far atleast).
The maker is a defensive weapon so there's no problem in giving it a small offensive ability.

[Fisherck]

we already have conversion bombs, if a player wants to reuse your AC that badly they can use repulsors and shields. If the vacuum is just going to be for custom maps than it should be its own unit and not an ability of a maker. Also burst mode should be a tech upgrade for the makers. busting should kill the maker too now that I think about it

Now that is just getting a little extreme. :)
The maker is the most docile of all units, and this adds a new punch to it. It allows you to reuse a finite resource. The goal of this is to make it economically valuable to even the best players. As it stands, the cost to recovery ratio of using repulsers is to slow and not worth it if you are going for the fastest time. This makes it much more valuable. Destroying the maker, or making the tank a unit, all devalues this new technique. Also, it creates more value in the current upgrade system.

And best of all, this system fits in so well with current gameplay that you do not need to make a new upgrade or unit for it to work! 8)

[ontheworld]

You guys shouldn't forget that if you'd burst out your ore supplies it's equal to letting your maker run just a few seconds longer...

we already have conversion bombs, if a player wants to reuse your AC that badly they can use repulsors and shields. If the vacuum is just going to be for custom maps than it should be its own unit and not an ability of a maker. Also burst mode should be a tech upgrade for the makers. busting should kill the maker too now that I think about it

This ability is as strong as regular, and made because people didn't want to use repulsors and shields for it takes longer than beating a map without it (for me)

[Yelik]

Any chance drones could also vacuum up creeper? And then drop it when it dies?

[TonyP2000]

This ability is as strong as regular, and made because people didn't want to use repulsors and shields for it takes longer than beating a map without it (for me)

A creeper vacuum would be better than constantly moving around repulsors and shields. It would be faster and use less energy. Plus, it would help save every last bit of ore on maps where ore is scarce. 

[Eric]

You guys shouldn't forget that if you'd burst out your ore supplies it's equal to letting your maker run just a few seconds longer...

we already have conversion bombs, if a player wants to reuse your AC that badly they can use repulsors and shields. If the vacuum is just going to be for custom maps than it should be its own unit and not an ability of a maker. Also burst mode should be a tech upgrade for the makers. busting should kill the maker too now that I think about it

This ability is as strong as regular, and made because people didn't want to use repulsors and shields for it takes longer than beating a map without it (for me)

I understand that this will devalue the new technique and that's the point. The game works great the way it is so by adding a vacuum for player convenience should be just a convenience and should have the same cost as any other technique. The player should not be rewarded or "saved" by a vacuum for inefficiently using AC, currently the time it takes to use the repulsors and shields method is the penalty. The reason I think the vacuum should be its own unit is then a map-designer can choose to let you use that unit or ability on the map they make. Also the storyline missions would be unaffected. Having a burst upgrade could have the same effect if the map designer could choose what upgrades would be available.

of course I am all for the most fun player experience and these are just my opinions on what that would be.

[Ytaker]

Bursting would be a manual process.  You would have to select a maker and click a burst button.  When you did this, it would instantly convert all ore (not remnant ore, just the ore in your stash) into anti-creeper.  Might there be a small penalty for doing this?  Perhaps.  The burst conversion from ore to anti-creeper might be around 10% less efficient than any of the 1x,2x,4x settings.

That would be sad. It's rare that you actually come anywhere close to running out of creeper even without vacuuming, so the penalty would not do much to actual gameplay. However, it would hurt us OCD ones who want to be super efficient and not actually be a penalty.

I do love the idea though. Creeper is great fun to play with. I love watching it flow, making it do weird things. This would be another chance to make cool stuff happen.

[UpperKEES]

I understand that this will devalue the new technique and that's the point. The game works great the way it is so by adding a vacuum for player convenience should be just a convenience and should have the same cost as any other technique. The player should not be rewarded or "saved" by a vacuum for inefficiently using AC, currently the time it takes to use the repulsors and shields method is the penalty. The reason I think the vacuum should be its own unit is then a map-designer can choose to let you use that unit or ability on the map they make. Also the storyline missions would be unaffected. Having a burst upgrade could have the same effect if the map designer could choose what upgrades would be available.

Please realize the maker currently is much weaker than any other weapon. It hardly ever pays of to build more than 1-2 of them, especially when trying to set a good score/fast time. Against the stronger emitters you will see in the code maps and custom maps this difference in fire power will become more evident. This change will make the game more balanced than it is right now, so just wait until you can play around with it. You will also need repulsors and shields more than you've needed them before.

That would be sad. It's rare that you actually come anywhere close to running out of creeper even without vacuuming, so the penalty would not do much to actual gameplay. However, it would hurt us OCD ones who want to be super efficient and not actually be a penalty.

You will run out of ore and much sooner than you expect. Keep in mind that most of the story maps feature relatively large amount of ore that won't be available in future maps (although it will be up to the custom map maker to balance all resources perfectly).

And don't forget there is a penalty for using the vacuum system: the building costs + time for the additional makers. When aiming for a fast time every second and packet of energy does matter.

[Cotters]

Question: will the code-map update be delayed to include the vacuum feature? I would prefer if they were separate updates.

Comments:
     Making structure-holding tanks for vacuumed creeper would only be a good idea if the oar values were not changed; but they would be so.. ya. As structure and oar value changes are both good solutions to the same problem; doing the (i think?) easier and (probably?) more popular option of new oar values is best. 

     I like how much time vacuuming will save the most. It gives a player more time to play more maps.

[Ytaker]

Please realize the maker currently is much weaker than any other weapon. It hardly ever pays of to build more than 1-2 of them

You will run out of ore and much sooner than you expect. Keep in mind that most of the story maps feature relatively large amount of ore that won't be available in future maps (although it will be up to the custom map maker to balance all resources perfectly).

And don't forget there is a penalty for using the vacuum system: the building costs + time for the additional makers. When aiming for a fast time every second and packet of energy does matter.

So essentially, the punishment is if you use the burst (and so run out sooner) then you'll have to revert to the weaker, quite unbalanced version of the maker.

I have no desire for this. I prefer games to let me use the weapons rather than put barriers between me and fun.

Also- I doubt in speed runs there will be any need to build more than one maker. You can just let the creeper deposit and sweep over it. In the past I only built makers en masse when I wanted to burst anyway.

[Fisherck]

So essentially, the punishment is if you use the burst (and so run out sooner) then you'll have to revert to the weaker, quite unbalanced version of the maker.

I have no desire for this. I prefer games to let me use the weapons rather than put barriers between me and fun.

It was never said the normal maker uses are unbalanced. Also, I enjoy it very much. It is a lot of fun, and it is an effective technique too. 8)

Also- I doubt in speed runs there will be any need to build more than one maker. You can just let the creeper deposit and sweep over it. In the past I only built makers en masse when I wanted to burst anyway.

Just wait for code and custom maps. In some of those you may need to use the burst button just to survive. :o And some of those maps will probably be mine ;).