Custom Map #1642: FPS: World of enemies. By: Kaiden

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This topic is for discussion of map #1642: FPS: World of enemies


Author: Kaiden
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[Malignantmind]

Adding in MORE moving enemies when the sniper doesn't get any upgrades was the wrong move. And whyyyy are skimmers still in this? They aren't fun even in a normal FPS map. But in one where you can get stunned (for 5 freaking seconds) and then immediately have multiple things spawning creeper right on top of you, it just immediately kills any enjoyment.

It does feel like the spawn rates of the tougher enemies was lowered (or maybe there's just less spawners for them on the map?), but with the addition of new units, it still becomes a mess to deal with, and now all of the spawners are tucked in the back of the map so you can't even progressively lower the amount of movers you have to deal with. For all its problems, the last map at least had the spawners scattered around the map so you could take out some of them before the final area.

[Kaiden]

Adding in MORE moving enemies when the sniper doesn't get any upgrades was the wrong move. And whyyyy are skimmers still in this? They aren't fun even in a normal FPS map. But in one where you can get stunned (for 5 freaking seconds) and then immediately have multiple things spawning creeper right on top of you, it just immediately kills any enjoyment.

It does feel like the spawn rates of the tougher enemies was lowered (or maybe there's just less spawners for them on the map?), but with the addition of new units, it still becomes a mess to deal with, and now all of the spawners are tucked in the back of the map so you can't even progressively lower the amount of movers you have to deal with. For all its problems, the last map at least had the spawners scattered around the map so you could take out some of them before the final area.

I actually forgot to reduce the skimmer stun time from 5s to something like 2s. As for the spawners, both maps has 5 spawners. And also I made the sniper faster compared to the previous map, I have no clue how to make the sniper shoot faster each time you get a upgrade, or how to make a sniper upgrade, though I could ask whoever created the upgrade system for a sniper upgrade.

[CS Z]

I think the most annoying aspect of this map is the constant sound of:

Pew, pew, pew, pew pew, pew, pew pew pew, BEEWOOP, BEEWOOP, pew, pew, pew.

That pretty much sums up the entire map.  There's also little incentive to make any progress as the AC will eventually build up sufficiently to overwhelm all the units and blow them up.  You just have to survive for an hour to get enough upgrades to shoot faster and place more AC breeder every 25-30 seconds.

The tanker unit can go away as far as I'm concerned.  It's too tank-ey and there are too many of them.

The factories for the new units are more difficult to blow up with mortars than sleepers.

[Zarem]

Really need to put some of the spawner in more vulnerable locations. Think the map would be better without the forbs and skimmers. Really need a way to remove the mesh. Please lower the spawn rate of the forbs so when I kill them they don't instantly respawn. You could perhaps make som of the new enemys being targeted by the missiles from auto defense so not everything need to get killed by the sniper.

[Kaiden]

Really need to put some of the spawner in more vulnerable locations. Think the map would be better without the forbs and skimmers. Really need a way to remove the mesh. Please lower the spawn rate of the forbs so when I kill them they don't instantly respawn. You could maby make som of the new enemys being targeted by the missiles from auto defense so not everything need to get killed by the sniper.

I can't make enemies be targeted by both missiles and snipers, so if i make a enemy be targeted by missiles, then autodefense would be the only way to take care of those units.

[joebywan]

This is exactlly as annoying as the previous map.  I like FPS maps, but these extra units constantly spawning and coming at you are just annoying.

It's not fun, they don't do anything unique, it's just time soaking and boring.

I get that you're trying to make something new, but this isn't it.

[Roszadok]

I had fun, althou skimmers make it sniper manager :P

[UberWaffe]

Spread the unit spawners out a bit more, so that the player can cut down a bit on the incoming waves.

I would suggest making 'stronghold' spots on the map that contain the spawners.
(I.e. turrets, towers and a spawner)
It takes some effort to take one down, but you get to eliminate one of the spawners.

That would also give the player a bit more choice in which part of the map to aim for.

[Craftyname]

Thank you!! As some people have mentioned it can feel a bit tedious. But the concept is awesome! I love the idea of making little strongholds so you can thin the herd as you go.

Thanks again!

[Niflthaena]

It may be worth doing some math on how much time you expect the player to devote to their sniper weapon. At the moment it's deceptively high; required damage output includes

• Chaser: 2 shots (30 frames / 600 frame spawns): 5% time
• Heli: 3 shots (45 f / 1350 f/spawn): 3.3% (repeating)
• Searcher: 8 shots (120 f / 1350 f/spawn): 8.8% (repeating)
• Tanker: 35 shots (525 f / 3600 f/spawn): ~14.6%
• Necromancer: 3 shots (45f / 4500 f/spawn): 1%

Which totals to 32.7% time spent firing the sniper gun, without considering non-scheduled (or non-essential) sniper targets, such as

• Orbs (infinite)
• Forbs (near-infinite)
• Ants (seemingly infinite)
• Zombies (frequent as long as necromancers live)
• Skimmers (Most likely to be manually targeted, for another 90/1800 frames - 5% time)

Note that these are optimal times, because - and this is hard to spot, but has a significant impact - the mobile enemies auto-heal. Tankers have 20 health, but due to auto-healing they take 35 sniper shots under normal conditions. If enemies group up and shots are spread among them, these times get longer. Worse still, the auto-defender's low rate of fire is effectively useless against the larger enemies - their auto-healing, scaling with their hit points, reduces its nominal DPS dramatically.

The auto-defender has a secondary problem - it spends most of its time shooting at renewable targets, because they are legion. They don't need to be shot, but they get shot anyway, which means the player has to deal with most of the scheduled targets' health.

In total, this means the player is expected to spend ~25% (with defender support) or minimum 32.7% (with no support) of their total playtime just sniping; a time sink that does not change as the map goes on - it does not go up in defended areas, nor down with area clears. It does not even go down with upgrades. There's no sense of progress around the mechanic, nothing that changes until the player is already in the heart of the base.



To my eyes, the biggest problem with this "spawn and chase" model is the lack of flow. Even if we allow for better placement - to let the player prioritize certain targets - their presence is felt everywhere on the map, from the very start of the map. If they're balanced for adding to a heavy fight, they're underwhelming when they're the only thing in one's way. If they're balanced to provide a major threat alone, they make entrenched positions absurdly hard. And since they can't scale over time, neither can the player - the give-and-take of progress is absent.

One option would be to reduce their follow range, adding a cap on their count per spawner. Like a sort of anthill. This would let them add a threat to specific places - which can be designed around their presence - without threatening to overwhelm the feel of the entire map.

[ikkonoishi]

In the end I won, not because of any skill or strategy, but just because I placed down so much AC that it drowned the entire map.

[Shatterstep]

Reminder, <Shift>+<E> allows you to edit a map. <Shift>+<X> allows you to delete an object when your mouse is hovering over it. <F9> allows you to go to top-down view if that makes it easier. You can press <F9> again to go back to normal view.

If you want to move the spawners to right in front of the spawn point to just kill them at the start, hold down <Control Key> then press and hold the left mouse button on an object and drag it to where you want to move it. You can let go of the <Control Key> after it starts moving.

Delete the spawners and enjoy the map :)

Almost every single map I play, I'll play the first time normally (unless the map is really frustrating). Then a second time (or more) by playing around with the layout and such. You learn a ton about map making by dorking around this way, though it helps a ton if you are a programmer and/or computer savvy.

[Shatterstep]

Speaking of editing maps... On sleeper maps the end-boss sends out mesh that overwrites everything. It can be amusing to change the Mesh resource type to something else. Just remember the annoying fobs thingies can only travel on mesh, so if those are around that mechanic will be broken if you get rid of mesh. Note, Mesh is resource "6: Mesh" in the drop-down.

Crimsonator is cool. It makes areas more challenging in an interesting way.

Shattered Land is dramatic as the land gets eaten away. Make sure the min height isn't 0 (which is void). I like to set it to 3. Pump up durability to 999 so eating away at land is slower.

A big downside to Shattered Land is you can make it so you can't get to where you need to go or might get stuck. Since you are editing the map you can just paint normal terrain for a bit so you can move around.

Creeper Breeder if you love pain.

Flip Breeder can be amusing, but deadly in many situations since it can ramp up creeper to painful levels. Might be helpful in others. I guess if you like a big struggle with a big payoff this might be for you.

AC Breeder makes things much easier. I guess you can pretend you hacked the boss to send out tendrils of love instead.

[Morthica]

So.. you were given feedback on the last map and you seem to have just ignored it and made another map that has more enemies?

We all appreciate you're trying to improve the FPS genre by adding something new, and it does give new challenges - it just needs to be tweaked a bit to actually be fun.

My recommendation is to add building AI. We know the biggest challenge on this map is how every 5 seconds you have to use your sniper. If you add building AI that ads snipers it gives you a bit of breathing room. You'll still need to get involved against the stronger units but the smaller ones the AI can take care of. Because of the creeper trial they leave there is always a chance it'll break through and undue your work which should add a more active element to the map.

Please don't make a 3rd map that is exactly the same as the other two. Change nothing else, add building AI and see how the 3rd map does.