additional skill needed: TRICKY

[mthw2vc]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't think there are any 30-second "Expert Only" maps. There just aren't enough stategies for that time period and the solution will seem obvious (that doesn't mean it can't be hard, though). There are certainly a few that take 10 (Modify "Expert Round" by Jonas by locking the city, moving the totems to the corners and adding a 10-minute time limit, and you'll see what I mean ), or even 5 minutes (Or so I've been told)

[Karsten75]

this post is for UpperKEES and Karsten75
instead of words, why don't you both give me an example to the 'expert only' maps, that MUST be done in 30 seconds.

Here you go: 33 seconds.

For the rest of your post, I can't figure out what you are on about.  I get the visual image of you foaming around the mouth.

[knucracker]

Interesting discussion...
I know the topic of "map difficulty" has come up before.  I have considered just removing it as a map classification since it can be subjective.

Stepping back for a second, I'm actually fairly pleased that the topic of map difficulty is so confusing and a subject for debate.  :)  Strange as it sounds, this is a good thing in that it means that the maps (and the game concept) aren't subject to over simplification.

My personal opinion is that map difficulty isn't actually that important....  map "stickiness" is (see 'The Tipping Point' by Malcom Gladwell).  Some maps are really good and others not so much.  Some are memorable, others not really.  The qualities that make maps interesting and memorable are the things I wish I could quantify....

In any case, I hope that game 2 will offer similar and expanded confusion over how to categorize maps :)

[Karsten75]

My personal opinion is that map difficulty isn't actually that important....  map "stickiness" is (see 'The Tipping Point' by Malcom Gladwell).  Some maps are really good and others not so much.  Some are memorable, others not really.  The qualities that make maps interesting and memorable are the things I wish I could quantify....

Actually, I think most maps sink into oblivion over time....

[tomiz]

Here you go: 33 seconds.

very nice map, thanks
by the way if there is a lot of people around you with foam problems maybe you are the one who causing it.

[F0R]

ur joking right

[UpperKEES]

this post is for UpperKEES and Karsten75
instead of words, why don't you both give me an example to the 'expert only' maps, that MUST be done in 30 seconds.

I can't recall anybody saying "MUST be done in 30 seconds". I said:

I know some very hard (definitely Expert Only) maps that can (or even need to) be completed in just 3 minutes.

Here are some more maps (besides the good example that Karsten mentioned) that can or should be finished quickly, but require more skill than you'll have after finishing the in-game maps:
- Reverse Funnel
- Devil's Den
- The Athlete

Play these and you'll see that difficulty is not related to the time it takes to complete them.

and beside that don't write down ridiculous assumption - I'm an experienced player.

Who made an assumption about your experience?

(maybe you skipped the middle posts).

Hmmm, I wonder if you skipped my posts or just don't understand what I'm saying....

I have considered just removing it as a map classification since it can be subjective.
(...)
My personal opinion is that map difficulty isn't actually that important

Exactly. Difficulty is just a rough indicator, determined by many factors relative to player experience, playing style and other preferences and of course the experience of the person who created the map. What map is harder? The one that requires 30 blasters to cross a mountain range or the map that requires 30 minutes of thinking how to solve it? Both can be hard and both can be considered easy, depending on your qualities. Like mathematics can be hard for people who prefer languages and vice versa.

Once again, if tomiz prefers long battles because 'long' means 'hard', just use the time filter.