Suggest: timeline for savegames

[4xC]

The Starcraft series has saving hotkeys and hotkeys for almost EVERYTHING else, so this would help here.

And about some maps taking hours to beat, how can they be THAT big? It's just creeper emitters and 2 other varying units plus the simpliest (but still complex) strategy base management high-popularity games offer. Compared to some of the oldest strategy games I am familiar with, it's still pretty simple regardless of it's advances.

[lurkily]

You could also give the player a hotkey for making saves, so that if there's a point in the game that they might want to explicitly come back to, they can hit that button and a snapshot will be made at the current instant. I'd also recommend tying this to a quicksave/quickload feature, since it seems like they go together quite naturally.

If a player loads an earlier save, why not just do a new autosave at that moment so that whether they manually save or not, they can return to the end of that branch, as far as they've  played?  That's more like how it works now, and wouldn't require more functionality than currently exists. 

I do agree, though, hotkeys for any common functions are good.

[Nemoricus]

I don't think that would quite work as you think you would. If they load a save, that point becomes a branch point, and you'd want a save at the *end* of their play time to preserve their progress through the branch.

What I'm suggesting is that, if a quick save is implemented, it can also be used to make additional saves along that branch.

[Chawe800]

The Starcraft series has saving hotkeys and hotkeys for almost EVERYTHING else, so this would help here.

And about some maps taking hours to beat, how can they be THAT big? It's just creeper emitters and 2 other varying units plus the simpliest (but still complex) strategy base management high-popularity games offer. Compared to some of the oldest strategy games I am familiar with, it's still pretty simple regardless of it's advances.

Remember Virgil has been developing an unreleased weapon the creeper has as it's disposal. This unreleased weapon should provide some complexity and uniqueness to Creeper World.

And have you seen some of those custom maps in CW2 It can have incredibly different aesthetics and such (take UpperKees's Pinball map that thing is crazy)

[lurkily]

I don't think that would quite work as you think you would. If they load a save, that point becomes a branch point, and you'd want a save at the *end* of their play time to preserve their progress through the branch.

That's exactly what I mean . . . when you return to a save, autosave to preserve the branch that you're on without losing progress, and start a new branch from the save that you've loaded.

If what V's describing is implemented, multiple snapshots will be implemented.  No matter what the case, there should definitely be hotkeys for saving a snapshot, and loading the snapshot/most recent snapshot.

And about some maps taking hours to beat, how can they be THAT big? It's just creeper emitters and 2 other varying units plus the simpliest (but still complex) strategy base management high-popularity games offer. Compared to some of the oldest strategy games I am familiar with, it's still pretty simple regardless of it's advances.

Simplicity does not mean expedience.  Even CW1 had maps that could be time consuming.  CW3 has maps many, many, many, many times that size, with much much more room for longer slogs through horribly dense creeper.

Custom mappers can put together some experiences that can be very grueling, and lifting the map size restriction opens up the potential challenge to a whole new level.

[Nemoricus]

To elaborate on the size issue, look at the bigger CW2 maps. The gameplay uses the same elements as a small map, but the size means that it still takes longer to complete, all else being equal.

[4xC]

Remember Virgil has been developing an unreleased weapon the creeper has as it's disposal. This unreleased weapon should provide some complexity and uniqueness to Creeper World.

And have you seen some of those custom maps in CW2 It can have incredibly different aesthetics and such (take UpperKees's Pinball map that thing is crazy)

Wait a minute; an UNRELEASED CREEPER WEAPON?!  ??? :o When did THAT announcement come to light?!

[lurkily]

Wait a minute; an UNRELEASED CREEPER WEAPON?!  ??? :o When did THAT announcement come to light?!

V's mentioned in previous blog posts that there will be more to threaten you than we've seen so far.

[Chawe800]

Remember Virgil has been developing an unreleased weapon the creeper has as it's disposal. This unreleased weapon should provide some complexity and uniqueness to Creeper World.

And have you seen some of those custom maps in CW2 It can have incredibly different aesthetics and such (take UpperKees's Pinball map that thing is crazy)

Wait a minute; an UNRELEASED CREEPER WEAPON?!  ??? :o When did THAT announcement come to light?!

http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/03/a-message-from-the-kc-development-bunker/

Virgil said in the Game 3 stats bullets:

•And of course some sneaky new enemies that will yet again redefine the strategy genre....

Virgil made this post in May 2.

I know he could have removed this creeper weapon or is working on tweaking it now. But I'm pretty sure it will be incroperated

(I also doubt any beta testers can confirm or object to whether or not this creeper weapon will be released.)

(P.S. V might now even annonce this in the blog until the release so we'll probably have to keep our fingers crossed)

(Argh Another post as i'm posting)

[4xC]

I would have had no doubts there would be a new enemy if I remembered when and if the announcement was posted earlier. I still thought CW3 was missing something in terms of the enemy however. Now, I stand enlightened thanks to digitalis.

[Michionlion]

Remember Virgil has been developing an unreleased weapon the creeper has as it's disposal. This unreleased weapon should provide some complexity and uniqueness to Creeper World.

And have you seen some of those custom maps in CW2 It can have incredibly different aesthetics and such (take UpperKees's Pinball map that thing is crazy)

Wait a minute; an UNRELEASED CREEPER WEAPON?!  ??? :o When did THAT announcement come to light?!

http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/03/a-message-from-the-kc-development-bunker/

Virgil said in the Game 3 stats bullets:

•And of course some sneaky new enemies that will yet again redefine the strategy genre....

Virgil made this post in May 2.

I know he could have removed this creeper weapon or is working on tweaking it now. But I'm pretty sure it will be incroperated

(I also doubt any beta testers can confirm or object to whether or not this creeper weapon will be released.)

(P.S. V might now even annonce this in the blog until the release so we'll probably have to keep our fingers crossed)

(Argh Another post as i'm posting)

Yep, I can confirm it :D  Although I guess anybody else can too....

[Ronini]

Aaargh! There is a knot in my head!

Let me see, if I can get this straight.
Normally, isn't there only one global savegame that is overwritten everytime you leave a map?

Based on this, my suggestion:
When you complete a map, it stays completed. Thus, if you choose to replay a map, the global savegame is left untouched. You then can manually create snapshots for this map only. Indeed, you have to if you want to leave this replaying of the map, since the game will only keep the "map completed" state on a global level.
This, of course, only works if there won't be the creeper-retakes-conquered-worlds feature.

It's more complicated when dealing with not completed maps. But then, it is possible to keep it simple: When you load an older (global, since there are no others for uncompleted maps) savegame, the global auto-savegame is overwritten. So you have to store it by creating a manual savegame before loading an older one. At any one time, there will be only one auto-savegame that includes the state of all maps in progress or completed. That is one for each "galaxy" (set of maps on one star map).

Whenever you start/continue a map a snapshot is created. Thus at any time playing this map, you can return to the point you last left of, or restart the map completely. Since while you are on a map everything else remains unchanged, it is only the current state of the map when you leave it that is "returned" to the global savegame.

Wouldn't suffice to have manual savegames show the number of maps completed, a small image of the map being played (if one was) and a screenshot of the star map (both if you saved during a mission or on the star map).
By these limitations required disk space will mostly be determined by the player, i.e. how many manual global savegames or snapshots of completed maps they save and keep.

I am aware that all this rests on the assumption, that there won't be much global strategy beyond "I first have to solve that level, before I can solve this one" and the star map is little more than an elaborate level-selection screen.

[Grauniad]

Let me see, if I can get this straight.
Normally, isn't there only one global savegame that is overwritten everytime you leave a map?

CW3 currently has a savegame per map. Created automatically when you leave the map (planet). You can also create a snapshot per map.

Based on this, my suggestion:
When you complete a map, it stays completed. Thus, if you choose to replay a map, the global savegame is left untouched. You then can manually create snapshots for this map only. Indeed, you have to if you want to leave this replaying of the map, since the game will only keep the "map completed" state on a global level.
This, of course, only works if there won't be the creeper-retakes-conquered-worlds feature.

Given my first statement, regardless of when you visit the world, it is in the same (even post-victory) state. You can choose to restart it and revert the world to it's original state. You can also play the world for as long as you wish after achieving victory conditions.

Given the above, rethink the rest of your suggestions? :)

[Ronini]

CW3 currently has a savegame per map. Created automatically when you leave the map (planet). You can also create a snapshot per map.

I see. This simplifies matters quite a lot.

Given the above, rethink the rest of your suggestions? :)

Then there should be only one auto-save slot per map that is overwritten everytime you leave map.
So if you want to go back to an older savegame you either lose your further developed game or store it by making a manual save/snapshot (I'm not entirely sure if these two are one and the same)

Regarding the organisational representation of these savegames I propose (or repeat, if this was proposed by someone before) something like this:

[savegame menu]
\savegames:
      \map1
           - autosave
           - save 1          (saved after entering map1 via the star map)
           - save 2          (same as save 1)
             - save 3        (saved after loading save 2)
             - save 4        (same as save 3)
                - save 6     (saved after loading save 4)
             - save 5        (same as save 3)
      \map2
          - autosave
          - save 1
            - save 2
              - save 3
      \map3
          - autosave
          - save 1
      \...

As for managing savegames: I'd go the easy way and say that if you delete (e.g.) map1\save2 \save3-5 simply move up to the level of save1. 
If there won't be a savegame menu as such (and I really like the following idea) everything could work via the star map. This might take just a bit longer if you want to load a particular game, but not excessively. If you want to play a particular map, you load up the relevant star map/sector/galaxy (if there's going to be more than one, i.e. for the main campaign, custom campaign, bonus maps, etc.). then you fly your ship to the particular map. Upon entering you get to choose between "continue" (loading the autsave) and "load savegame" (displaying the list under \map1 above). Simples.
Since all maps are independent from each other savegame-wise, I think it's reasonable, even paramount, to begin any savegame structuring by sorting them by the map they apply to. Utmost clarity, maximal freedom, reasonable storage consumption.

Plus a neat way to use the star map as game menu:
- Selecting game type by jumping to a different sector
- load games by accessing the planet on the map
- accessing game options, quitting the game, game stats and custom map management through clicking
   your ship:
    - engine room (options)
    - escape pod (quit)
    - something for stats (library?)
    - cartography/navigation for map management).
    - crew quarters (credits).

Phew. Now my head's buzzing. I'll post the menu thing in the interface request thread right away. Probably a better place to discuss this over there.

[4xC]

With that kind of saving style ofr CW3, what, if there will be one, will the quick-save hotkey do?