Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist

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UpperKEES

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Reply #15 on: June 29, 2010, 03:05:13 pm
compared to some of ur other maps i wouldn't of said this was the hardest.

It absolutely isn't now I tried again, while it was supposed to be the toughest. It might actually turn out to be the easiest map of them!  :-\

I guess that's what happens when you design a map with a special strategy in mind; something I rarely do, because I always like to offer multiple possible solutions. A good lesson for me though. :) I consider it to be my first flawed/pwned map. Hadn't experienced that yet. :P

The good thing is that this map fits in nicely in the upcoming Hard Art series, so I'll definitely do a remake with the intended game play. Man, you wouldn't believe what a battle it was when I played it the first time! Reminds me of struggling with Tucana and Frigg 3 for 45 minutes when I was a beginner.... ;D

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snowmaker (JM)

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Reply #16 on: June 29, 2010, 03:16:58 pm
This isn't your hardest map by a long shot. I am trying to be more patient since I tend to get into battle asap, but that doesn't work with this game usually  ;D



UpperKEES

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Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 03:25:35 pm
This isn't your hardest map by a long shot.

Nah, I know after Melissa teaching me a lesson, but the remake will be. ;) Luckily this map is still fun to play. Only Medium would be a more applicable difficulty rating now than Expert Only.

I am trying to be more patient since I tend to get into battle asap, but that doesn't work with this game usually  ;D

Exactly. Patience really pays off.

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NNR_Alex

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Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 04:02:17 pm
nice etsher reference, i'll have to try this one later, glad to hear it's not as hard as you made it out to be (as i still can't beat the diver even with starting out on a mortar and two blasters, i'm probably doing something really stupid and wrong).  i'll report back later on how i did.  on and just so melissa knows, i'm also an artist, so you're not along on being and artist on these forums.



UpperKEES

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Reply #19 on: June 29, 2010, 04:11:42 pm
nice etsher reference

Thanks. I really love Escher (have some of his works on my walls). For people not familiar with his work, see here. I'll probably do another (different) map inspired by him later.

i'll have to try this one later, glad to hear it's not as hard as you made it out to be (as i still can't beat the diver even with starting out on a mortar and two blasters, i'm probably doing something really stupid and wrong).  i'll report back later on how i did.

Heheh! Glad there's a good side to everything. :) Let me know in The Diver thread if you like more tips for that one.

and just so melissa knows, i'm also an artist, so you're not along on being and artist on these forums.

Hmmm, quite some artist loving CW! I like that. I know Vexsin is also a creator, but his speciality is music. If you happen to paint modern art I'm happy to use one of your works as well if you like! :)

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NNR_Alex

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Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 05:25:27 pm
nah i don't paint, i'm pretty horrible at it, i'm more into drawing and digital work.  and unlike melissa my stuff isn't geometric like she said hers is on the diver thread.



UpperKEES

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Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 05:28:04 pm
Oh, but drawings and digital art might work out fine too. Do you have a link to pictures of your work?

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mthw2vc

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Reply #22 on: June 29, 2010, 06:14:12 pm
I'm almost done with this now. Far easier than I had expected, especially since YOU said it was hard. My only issue is that the emitters suddenly got stronger at the 15-minute mark, destroying my relays mere seconds before my victory. Oh well. I can get a worse time if I have to.

EDIT: It just happened again at the 25-minute mark. My network has been ruined by rude emitters that abruptly get stronger with no warning whatsoever.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 06:33:07 pm by mthw2vc »



UpperKEES

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Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 06:39:36 pm
Far easier than I had expected, especially since YOU said it was hard.

Same goes for me as you've probably read above. ;) Who do you think is more disappointed by that?  ::)

It's the result of our discussion, as I wanted to create a map designed for the use of mortars. I guess I did this a bit better than expected. :D

My only issue is that the emitters suddenly got stronger at the 15-minute mark, destroying my relays mere seconds before my victory.

Never take anything for granted. ;D

(click to show/hide)

Oh well. I can get a worse time if I have to.

My first attempt took me 32 minutes, hence the choice for the emitter delays. My second around 11 minutes, so your 15 minutes can be improved a lot. For lovers of hard core maps like you (and me) I'd wait for the remake. I promise you'll have a much tougher time. 8) For the average player this is still a very challenging map though. :)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 04:39:59 pm by UpperKEES »

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mthw2vc

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Reply #24 on: June 29, 2010, 06:44:13 pm
Faster firing is a way of making it stronger, and a much more annoying one at that, as it's more likely to break caps.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 06:48:54 pm by mthw2vc »



UpperKEES

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Reply #25 on: June 29, 2010, 07:07:00 pm
Faster firing is a way of making it stronger, and a much more annoying one at that, as it's more likely to break caps.

Hahaha! :D Come on, are you really complaining that you lost a few relays and 15 minutes after I've spent about 2 full days on one of your maps? :P This map was intended to collapse in case of a severe deficit or mistake, which happened to me twice during testing when the delays between the emitter frequency increases were shorter, so maybe it was a bad advise to challenge you for the remake. ;D

Besides that it's not true. An emitter of 5 intensity can't be capped by 1 blaster shot; an emitter of 4 intensity (like these) can. Of course I've tested that. ;) Due to the location of the emitters (close to the edge of an elevation layer) a nearby relay would certainly be lost. Just build them a bit further away and you're fine.

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mthw2vc

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Reply #26 on: June 29, 2010, 07:32:50 pm
I never said it was true in every situation. I just said it was more likely, although I suppose that would vary based on the type of maps played. I'm also not compaining that they got stronger. I'm complaining about the fact that it was never mentioned.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 07:46:09 pm by mthw2vc »



UpperKEES

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Reply #27 on: June 29, 2010, 08:17:02 pm
I'm complaining about the fact that it was never mentioned.

Like many others I've used this for many maps and you're the first to complain. Everybody is free to look up emitter intensities/intervals/delays and spore waves in the map editor and I'm not planning on listing them in the future. ;) As you know I've posted about using these techniques in several topics.

If you were really capping these emitters you wouldn't have had a problem by the way, because even after all three mentioned increases the emitters were still cappable by 1 blaster, so I think breaking caps wasn't the issue here; you just built too close.

I never said it was true in every situation. I just said it was more likely, although I suppose that would vary based on the type of maps played.

Even in general it's not true. Let's have a look at four examples:

1. An emitter with 0.1 intensity and 0.1 second interval
2. An emitter with 1 intensity and 1 second interval
3. An emitter with 10 intensity and 10 second interval
4. An emitter with 100 intensity and 100 second interval

In theory (I'll come back to that later) each emitter emits 60 units of creeper per minute, so you could consider them of the same strength. Emitters 1 and 2 can be capped by 1 blaster. Emitters 3 and 4 can't. Of course when more shots are used it's possible to clear the area again (although you won't succeed with emitter 4), but nearby units might have been destroyed by that time. In general you can assume that an emitter with an intensity of <4 can be capped by 1 blaster shot.

This is only in theory, because in reality the emitter only emits the amount of creeper up to the specified intensity, which might be less when there's already creeper above the emitter. The longer the interval, the more creeper will be emitted because most of the creeper will have flowed away from that location. Of course this doesn't apply when the emitter is already being capped, but that might not be the case any more after an increase of intensity, while an increase of frequency (= decrease of interval) won't cause such a problem as long as the interval is greater than about 0.2-0.3 sec (see here for details about that).
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 11:33:29 am by UpperKEES »

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Mare

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Reply #28 on: June 29, 2010, 10:18:05 pm
Good map, really good map, I would have finished it yet I got a little angry over how I kept losing the same spot in the map over and over again and again and chose to quit, the bad part was that I had finally captured all of the really high terrain...This map was sad and fun for me at the same time, good job for making a map like this Upperkees.  ??? :'( :)

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UpperKEES

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Reply #29 on: June 29, 2010, 10:49:25 pm
Thanks Mare! :)

I guess you played it the same way as I initially did, which really makes you fight for every pixel on your screen. The best tip I can give you is adding a few more mortars to avoid the capping blaster from getting distracted and not building too close to the emitters. When you have all high terrain conquered you should have enough space to build everything you need to finish. I actually needed a lot less than I expected when I went for my second run.

And oh, don't be angry or frustrated with the game (or yourself, or even me ;)). When you finally succeed in completing a hard map the satisfaction is proportional, that's why I love these kind of challenges.

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