Custom Map: Nice Job 12: The Collector

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This topic is for discussion of map: Nice Job 12: The Collector


Author: UpperKEES

Desc:
During the initial phase you will have to retreat after picking up the items of your preference. Defending this position will be the hardest part and might cost you a few tries. Once established you'll be able to advance rather fast. From that moment moving to the 2nd page will be the toughest job.

[UpperKEES]

Title:	Nice Job 12: The Collector
Difficulty:	Hard
Creeper type:	Land only
Remarks:	During the initial phase you will have to retreat after picking up the items of your preference. Defending this position will be the hardest part and might cost you a few tries. Once established you'll be able to advance rather fast. From that moment moving to the 2nd page will be the toughest job.
Description:	You are not only a Creeper World addict, but also a dedicated collector. The CW items have become your collector items that you store in a special book. One day this collection might be worth a lot of money! Today is a happy day; you've finally found the Thor tech and your collection is complete! When you place the tech in your book, you realize something terrible.... Emitters can't be stored without being capped! You quickly decide to use the items to save the collection.... and yourself!
Download page:	Nice Job 12: The Collector
Full size screen shot:
More maps:	Apply here for another job ;)

[NNR_Alex]

man this one is beating me up too.  I've figured out not to float the city to get the first techs and i was able to hold things off for a while, i moved one blaster i shouldn't have, to try and keep the moat between the book and the land down and that cost me on my latest try, i'll have to attempt it again later.

Edit: oh yeah i noticed you decided to bump back the soccer player, i was confused at first when i saw the collector instead, lol.

[mthw2vc]

You're certainly right about getting out of the corner being the toughest part... How you beat it in 20 minutes is beyond me. It's also interesting how by the time I could get the thor built, I already had all of the emitters capped. I would've really appreciated it if the mortar or drone tech was closer to the start, though.

A hint for anyone who's having trouble: You can defend for several minutes with two blasters. Use that time to build reactors, although you will eventually need a third blaster.

[UpperKEES]

man this one is beating me up too.  I've figured out not to float the city to get the first techs and i was able to hold things off for a while, i moved one blaster i shouldn't have, to try and keep the moat between the book and the land down and that cost me on my latest try, i'll have to attempt it again later.

Spoiler

Nah, I think you'd lose too much energy by floating. I just build 2 collectors (what else do you have? ;)) to the left top of the book and collect the blaster tech, the reactor tech, the speed tech, the storage tech and 3 upgrades (just in time with about 1 second left). In the meanwhile I have built 2 more collectors below OC and start building one reactor. You'll probably lose all collectors on the book and the right most above the book; I don't even try to protect them. When the first reactor is finished I build a blaster to defend against the creeper coming from the right top. Then I build one the defend against the creeper from below. After that I keep building a couple of reactors and add a third blaster later when the pressure is rising. Moving the blasters is indeed tricky, so you should make very small steps when advancing. Also make sure you reserve your last free spots for more blasters to enter the book again.

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Edit: oh yeah i noticed you decided to bump back the soccer player, i was confused at first when i saw the collector instead, lol.

Yep, I decided to switch them, because I expect the Soccer Player to be more popular with the world championships getting closer. ;)

You're certainly right about getting out of the corner being the toughest part... How you beat it in 20 minutes is beyond me.

Spoiler

I only advance when I have used every available spot with units of which I'm sure I'll need. This way I cover most of page 1 with some more reactors, a couple of speed nodes and spare blasters.

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It's also interesting how by the time I could get the thor built, I already had all of the emitters capped. I would've really appreciated it if the mortar or drone tech was closer to the start, though.

Spoiler

Oh, you build Thor? I only included it to complete the collection, but I figured people would finish the map a few seconds later because it's next to the last totem. I'm not sure if you would have enough energy to use a mortar during the initial phase, because it's already hard to keep the 2 blasters firing. You get to the mortar at the moment it's really needed: when you want to move over to the second page. Though if you really want to, I guess it's possible to get the mortar early (at the cost of missing some upgrades and the speed tech).

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A hint for anyone who's having trouble: You can defend for several minutes with two blasters. Use that time to build reactors, although you will eventually need a third blaster.

Exactly. You've played it well! :)

[mthw2vc]

You built reactors on the book? I didn't need any once I got up there in the first place. Also, what I mean when I say I would've appreciated the mortar tech being closer to the start is that it would be easier to advance once you built them (I honestly considered floating to get it in the beginning). As it stands, without air-juggling, I needed every last spot I could save to get onto the book and I actually needed more time rather than energy to save the blasters I had going down the left side once I was finally on the offensive. I'm certainly going to try this one again.

[UpperKEES]

Spoiler

With more energy you can build more units at the same time. I enter the book with about 7 and completed the map with about 13 (although that could have been a little less).

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Spoiler

I leave the 2 blasters at the bottom left until the pressure went down after conquering most of page 1. Then I move one of them to the 2nd page. Mortars are not very effective against creeper of 1 elevation level thick, so they would only be useful to hit the few pools on the book that they might reach.

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[mthw2vc]

The thing about them is that the have a long range and target the pools. This can be good for clearing out the book in a short amount of time. I had the second book page almost clean within 2 minutes of building my mortars.

Also, do not forget that the slots are each 2 units deep. As for their only being effective on the pools, I disagree. I used one of them to clear out the backflow in the lower-right corner, and you can fly them to attack every pool almost at the same time.

[I am not trying to argue here. I am trying to explain why I would've liked the mortar tech to be easier to get.]

[NNR_Alex]

Nah, I think you'd lose too much energy by floating. I just build 2 collectors (what else do you have? ;)) to the left top of the book and collect the blaster tech, the reactor tech, the speed tech, the storage tech and 3 upgrades (just in time with about 1 second left). In the meanwhile I have built 2 more collectors below OC and start building one reactor. You'll probably lose all collectors on the book and the right most above the book; I don't even try to protect them. When the first reactor is finished I build a blaster to defend against the creeper coming from the right top. Then I build one the defend against the creeper from below. After that I keep building a couple of reactors and add a third blaster later when the pressure is rising. Moving the blasters is indeed tricky, so you should make very small steps when advancing. Also make sure you reserve your last free spots for more blasters to enter the book again.

A hint for anyone who's having trouble: You can defend for several minutes with two blasters. Use that time to build reactors, although you will eventually need a third blaster.

Exactly. You've played it well! :)

I gotta say you collect a lot more than i did, i stopped after the blaster and reactor.  speed and storage won't do much good early on but are nice to get out of the way, i'll definatly pick up the upgrades and use them all on the green slots, I'll take faster building of reactors/blasters over better fire rate/range.

The only major thing i did diffrent was i was able to stay on the top corner of the book with just one blaster for a while followed by a second one when the creeper...well started creeping up around one of the collection holes.

[NNR_Alex]

Well I beat this one, not a pretty score, although I'm glad most the other people are in the 40min range as well, i could shave a few minutes off i'm sure, only used two mortars to get into the second page so it worked out pretty good for me, i battery powered my way back onto the first page of the book, lost a few blasters but once i had a foothold and a few of the storage holes covered i knew i'd win this time.

[UpperKEES]

The thing about them is that the have a long range and target the pools. This can be good for clearing out the book in a short amount of time. I had the second book page almost clean within 2 minutes of building my mortars.

Also, do not forget that the slots are each 2 units deep. As for their only being effective on the pools, I disagree. I used one of them to clear out the backflow in the lower-right corner, and you can fly them to attack every pool almost at the same time.

[I am not trying to argue here. I am trying to explain why I would've liked the mortar tech to be easier to get.]

Don't worry, I always like a good discussion and seeing/understanding somebody else's point of view. It's just that I like the start to be hard. You'll have to clear about 33% of the book without mortars (without doubt the hardest part), but you can use them for the remaining 67%. As I love blaster fights I often offer mortars and/or drones later on in my maps. Besides that mortars are really not as efficient as a lot of people think (unless you keep moving/deactivating them). Even the fastest time on Corvus(!) has been set by using only 2 blasters. I hardly use mortars at all and certainly not when drones are available. Here is a nice discussion about this.

Though if you really want to, I guess it's possible to get the mortar early (at the cost of missing some upgrades and the speed tech).

I tried this, but without success.

I gotta say you collect a lot more than i did, i stopped after the blaster and reactor.  speed and storage won't do much good early on but are nice to get out of the way, i'll definatly pick up the upgrades and use them all on the green slots, I'll take faster building of reactors/blasters over better fire rate/range.

Spoiler

So how do you get 3 upgrades without getting speed and storage? If you place your collectors in a smart way, you should be able to get it all for the same costs. I don't do this very often, but I made a screenshot because I realize the start of this map is rather hard. See attachment how to collect all these items just in time. I also use the upgrades for the green slots myself.

[close]

The only major thing i did diffrent was i was able to stay on the top corner of the book with just one blaster for a while followed by a second one when the creeper...well started creeping up around one of the collection holes.

I recall doing the same thing a month ago when I created and tested this map, but if I remember correctly it did cost me more energy than I gained from it. Not sure though....

Well I beat this one, not a pretty score, although I'm glad most the other people are in the 40min range as well, i could shave a few minutes off i'm sure, only used two mortars to get into the second page so it worked out pretty good for me, i battery powered my way back onto the first page of the book, lost a few blasters but once i had a foothold and a few of the storage holes covered i knew i'd win this time.

Spoiler

Yep, I use only 2 mortars as well. I think the seconds page only costs me about 3 minutes, while the emitters are much stronger, but that's mainly because I build many blasters in advance.

[close]

[RichieRich]

Yikes that was heavy going  :D

Second time was much better as I overbuilt a bit the first time. Not sure how you got upto 7 energy before you went on the page UpperKEES - my space was pretty full and I was at 5.5.

Once you are established striaghtforward enough  - the difficulty is a good score. Not sure how you got it to 20 mins.

I dont think the mortar pacing is a problem. I mostly use blasters anyway and I built only 2 to clear out the deep water to make the 2nd page easier.

For the second page, I went from the bottom up so thor was actually the first upgrade I got. I did start building it but had everything locked down just as it finished building.

Thanks - as always - for the map. Great fun.

[NNR_Alex]

I had a similar (as in almost identical after you'd said what items you go for) set up on my completion run, except i lost the collector for speed/upgrade before it was finished, oh well just having upgrades for building faster and less costs helped out some.  and i couldn't hold the corner of the book this time had to drop back down all the way and sacrificed some blasters in my effort to get back on the page.


RichiRich-i did the same thing with thor, and it finished just as i was finishing the map as well.

[UpperKEES]

Yikes that was heavy going  :D

Second time was much better as I overbuilt a bit the first time. Not sure how you got upto 7 energy before you went on the page UpperKEES - my space was pretty full and I was at 5.5.

Once you are established striaghtforward enough  - the difficulty is a good score. Not sure how you got it to 20 mins.

I dont think the mortar pacing is a problem. I mostly use blasters anyway and I built only 2 to clear out the deep water to make the 2nd page easier.

For the second page, I went from the bottom up so thor was actually the first upgrade I got. I did start building it but had everything locked down just as it finished building.

Thanks - as always - for the map. Great fun.

Also thanks to you, nice to see players sticking around. :)

Spoiler

Regarding the energy: I didn't give away all my secrets when posting the screenshot.... ;) I actually don't build my collectors with the maximum distance between them, as this results in a loss of space. I also move OC a bit to create more room. :P

[close]

I had a similar (as in almost identical after you'd said what items you go for) set up on my completion run, except i lost the collector for speed/upgrade before it was finished, oh well just having upgrades for building faster and less costs helped out some.  and i couldn't hold the corner of the book this time had to drop back down all the way and sacrificed some blasters in my effort to get back on the page.

Spoiler

I don't build all collectors at the same time, but add some when my energy levels allow me to do so. I add the one for the storage a little later for instance, just like the second collector below OC.

[close]

RichiRich-i did the same thing with thor, and it finished just as i was finishing the map as well.

I'm glad to read this, because I never want Thor to be used on one of my maps! ;)

[mthw2vc]

The thing about them is that the have a long range and target the pools. This can be good for clearing out the book in a short amount of time. I had the second book page almost clean within 2 minutes of building my mortars.

Also, do not forget that the slots are each 2 units deep. As for their only being effective on the pools, I disagree. I used one of them to clear out the backflow in the lower-right corner, and you can fly them to attack every pool almost at the same time.

[I am not trying to argue here. I am trying to explain why I would've liked the mortar tech to be easier to get.]

Don't worry, I always like a good discussion and seeing/understanding somebody else's point of view. It's just that I like the start to be hard. You'll have to clear about 33% of the book without mortars (without doubt the hardest part), but you can use them for the remaining 67%. As I love blaster fights I often offer mortars and/or drones later on in my maps. Besides that mortars are really not as efficient as a lot of people think (unless you keep moving/deactivating them). Even the fastest time on Corvus(!) has been set by using only 2 blasters. I hardly use mortars at all and certainly not when drones are available. Here is a nice discussion about this.
*snip*

Yes, blasters are usually better. This map isn't quite the same as corvus in that regard, though. By the time you can get to the mortar tech (Indeed, it does seem impossible to save it before the initial rush of creeper), It really mostly helps in that you don't need very many to clear the page, whereas you'd need more than 8 blasters to do that in under a minute (it only takes 4 mortars), although using the spare blasters to keep down the toughest emitters will still be needed. If you have enough spare blasters to clear it out in under a minute... I'm afraid I must question that.