Custom Map #555: Catch 22

AutoPost · December 10, 2011, 12:01:02 PM

This topic is for discussion of map #555: Catch 22

Author: PurpleYouko

Desc:
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont. The only way to defeat the creeper is to use the anti-creeper emitter. How are you going to reach it though? There's no way to reach that lake of creeper either? Maybe you can use the gateway above you?

koker93 · December 10, 2011, 06:19:36 PM

Really?? Restrictions on everything again?

I'm sure these maps with the restrictions are fun for someone - but not me. He does not let you actually build anything - so whats the point. I stopped after 5 minutes and deleted the map. Sorry for blasting you, I know its now often taken as constructive criticism, but seriously. No more restrictions on units!!!

Grauniad · December 10, 2011, 06:54:34 PM

It is my belief that many map makers see it as their primary objective to make players fail at completing the map. They also want to avoid players finding alternative approaches and thus they place numerous restrictions on all aspects of the game.

One can only hope that they derive a certain pleasure from making the map.

Nate Dog · December 10, 2011, 07:55:47 PM

I rather enjoyed the beginning of this map and thought the restrictions really made it interesting! That being said, after you "race" the gateway to the AC emitter and take out the other emitters, the end of this map is really a slog. I think by the end i had 544 ore usage and just slogged my way into the chamber to finish and once i saw my AC was winning the push against the creeper i just left to go get some food.

Relli · December 10, 2011, 08:13:13 PM

My biggest complaint is that the makers are ridiculously weak, and there just isn't enough room to make enough to push the pool back. that said, I tried anyway. filled the line with them, and some blasters in front to kill off drones, then kept having to scoot back a space every now and then. finally I got pushed all the way back to my base, where there seems to be an invisible field pushing down and left. luckily for me, that just happened to push anti-creeper in front of the shield I had, as well as keep the creeper from moving up into all my makers. Over time, the very bottom left dot built up over a billion anti-creeper. And then suddenly it was gone. In its place, over a billion regular creeper. as if someone had dropped an anti-conversion bomb on the spot. From there, things just fell apart. But can anyone explain where all my creeper went? because that's what I really want to know.

Grauniad · December 10, 2011, 08:20:23 PM

Creeper and anti-creeper are just two sides of the same coin. negative and positive numbers. When the number rolls over (as computer representations of numbers are wont to do if they get too large or too small, then the substance reverts to its opposite.

Thus, if you have creeper (or anti-creeper) over or near 2 147 483 648 (that will read as 2147 million) density, then a small addition (or a repulsor beam focused into it, can increase the density to the point where it will flip in to the opposite type of creeper.

Relli · December 10, 2011, 10:57:02 PM

Thanks. That could lead to some interesting maps if used just right. Someone should totally do that.

eudrick · December 10, 2011, 11:29:13 PM

Quote from: Riluna on December 10, 2011, 10:57:02 PM
Thanks. That could lead to some interesting maps if used just right. Someone should totally do that.

Check out my maps Collapsar and Gauntlet III. I use the flip on both of those. Also Diamondique, but I caught some small amount of heat for that one.

fitz · December 11, 2011, 02:03:00 PM

I enjoyed this map and decided to replay it using all my lessons learnt from the first time. I improved my time by 0.6 seconds ???

Grauniad · December 11, 2011, 03:37:13 PM

Quote from: fitz on December 11, 2011, 02:03:00 PM
I enjoyed this map and decided to replay it using all my lessons learnt from the first time. I improved my time by 0.6 seconds ???

Well done! :P

PurpleYouko · December 11, 2011, 05:23:00 PM

I see my first attempt at map making is getting mixed reviews.

This map was designed more as a puzzle to be solved than anything else.
Possibly i even gave too much information away at the start.

the final trick in the puzzle is to keep the gateway alive until you can reach the bottom entrance into the creeper pool.
If anyone manages to beat the map by going in via the top right then I would like to hear about it. I don't think it's possible.
I was hoping that a lot of people wouldn't realize there was a second way into the creeper pool.

And yes i must admit that pushing the creeper back down the tubes is a tad tedious.

As for limits. I don't know why that would be a problem. You have to think a lot more strategically when you have limited resources. Without the limits it would be too easy IMO.

jepler · December 11, 2011, 10:54:15 PM

Well on my way to winning from the top right entrance:

this ultimately led to my unimpressive 74 minute finish.

Spoiler

to make any headway going from this direction, I had 9 sets of charging makers that I moved in and dumped one after the other for, well, about an hour.

[close]

I guess that going in from the other direction the fields would work in my favor..

Grauniad · December 11, 2011, 10:57:17 PM

Quote from: PurpleYouko on December 11, 2011, 05:23:00 PM
I see my first attempt at map making is getting mixed reviews.

This map was designed more as a puzzle to be solved than anything else.
Possibly i even gave too much information away at the start.

the final trick in the puzzle is to keep the gateway alive until you can reach the bottom entrance into the creeper pool.
If anyone manages to beat the map by going in via the top right then I would like to hear about it. I don't think it's possible.
I was hoping that a lot of people wouldn't realize there was a second way into the creeper pool.

And yes i must admit that pushing the creeper back down the tubes is a tad tedious.

As for limits. I don't know why that would be a problem. You have to think a lot more strategically when you have limited resources. Without the limits it would be too easy IMO.

Enlighten me - why is the bottom entrance so important? fighting the creeper in another tunnel with a few blasters is hardly improving the game play? At issue here is that it takes an inordinate amount of time to destroy the very dense major pool of creeper. It is relatively trivial to dig through to the anti-creeper emitter and then to (slowly, due to energy constraints) build up a huge base of Makers to fill the two pathways the creeper will threaten to escape - but it can't be done fast. Your time is about 70 minutes and the best times is around 33 minutes - which I think is astoundingly fast, given the restrictions.

SmileyCoder · December 12, 2011, 04:06:15 PM

I personally like limits on units, and think that it CAN alot to most maps. That however is not the issue here in my oppinion. In my oppinion the problem here, is simply that there is too much creeper in the enclosed space. I believe that you might have accomplished the same with alot less creeper, interesting start, different finish then most maps, but without the tedious slog.

Im guessing that whoever beats the map in a very short amount of time is spending alot of time micro-managing the movement of charging Makers to be able to pump more then average anti creeper into the hole.

jepler · December 12, 2011, 08:51:02 PM

Going in from the lower entrance I bettered my time from about 74 minutes to under 56. It's true that the lower area lets you fit a lot more makers in without juggling them.

I took out the emitter and gateway in the room just below first, then let the gateway dig out the final chamber. I am not sure whether this is the faster method or not---doing it "all at once" might trim some time.

I also wonder whether attacking from both directions is the fastest, since that gives you two fronts and a couple dozen more tiles for makers to sit on. You could let the gateway open both undiggable sides of the big chamber from the bottom and then when you are up to it you can manually dig the second (top) side the rest of the way open.