Posting modified versions of maps made by other people.

[TheBuilder]

This pisses me off a bit, i made this map:
http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=361&page=

And without asking me, this person posted a modified version:
http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=457&page=

Now i would like to know if I should just let this go, or if anyone else thinks that if someone does this that they should at least ask the person that made the original version of the map.

[The Creep Destroyer]

I think if you post a modifide version of someones map using there map then modifing it, then you need there permision if it is not granted the map should be removed. If they just made a map without looking and it ended up looking like yours then thats fine.

[Sauffaus]

Actually, I think it would be prudent to incorporate some sort of protection of the maps.

Idea: When you save a map from the editor, you are prompted for a password... you then need that password again, to open that same map in the editor later.
Simple and effective I think.
And, if ppl want to share the password, they could just do that, and effectively nothing has changed... win-win.

[TheBuilder]

u guys kinda get the idea, but adding a password to each map for that reason would be a waste of time, though something needs to be done, im just not sure wat

[betadata]

the password idea would be good lso for if/when the custom maps have a scoring tracking. this would prevent cheating a bit.

[Pigster]

I'm guilty of this, on my one and only map I've had posted.

BUT, how about if the modifier credits the originator?

I didn't ask for permission off George, but am more than happy to credit his excellent landscaping - his level of difficulty isn't exactly suited to me, so I ramped it up until I found it HARD.

(My first post, please be gentle)

[Aurzel]

i think if you ask the original maker and s/he agrees and you credit the maker in your map then its acceptable

[Karsten75]

I don't think there is or should be "owner's rights" to any map.  What there should be is an identification system to prevent a map from masquerading as a different map, so I can't take a map  that is as hard as heck to win, add all the necessary infrastructure, beat it and then post the result as a win on the original map.

This will mean that when a map is posted, it is "final" in some form or other and then derivative maps can be created, but they will not be confused with the original.

This way we can use a map that presents an original or interesting idea and eveolve or grow the map, without taking away from the original map.

* Karsten75 shouts out to Virgil to have a think about this.

[knucracker]

I plan to implement scores for the custom maps.  When I do this, a map will be identified by a unique id.  This unique id will change whenever the map is altered.  So if someone downloads a map, alters it, then plays the map and posts a score.... well that score will go into an invisible bit bucket in the sky.  The only way to post a score for a custom map will be to play the same map that I have on the server.

This also means that when an author updates a map, that map needs to be called something like v1.1.  It is a different map no matter how small the change.

Also, once scores are in place this gives me another metric that can be used to help categorize maps (average score).

[Blaze]

TheBuidler, I am sorry but i did not know how to contact you. If I made you upset or mad then I am sorry. But i chose your map because it is the best maze map I've ever seen. And if you want it off the list then by all means Virgil Take it off the list. As I said I'm sorry.

[TheBuilder]

Thanks to those that have lent their opinion.
Hmm, nice way to add double uses to things Virgil.

@ those who wish to post a modified version of someone elses map; check the name of the author as it is shown on the original version of the map, then go to the forums and find that persons account, (if they have one), and send them a PM asking permission and/or watever else.

[jem]

it would be good if you can edit him but if you post the edited version still looks like the old version and will be posted will be declined

[Luke83]

I am honestly surprised that this is even a concern.

Knuckle Cracker creates a great game and opens it up to the community through map making. The community then creates awesome and unique maps which are inspired by the original game, and in some cases are just slight changes to in game maps.

Some in the community are then inspired by the newly created maps. They then create completely new and unique maps but also maps that are just slight variations.

The cycle goes on...

I have no problem with anyone taking any of my maps (1 up, 1 cued) and slightly varying them. It would be nice to be credited for the inspiration though. In theBuilders case, the changed map straight up said "Credit Goes To TheBuilder As It Is His Map Make Just I Moded It".

I think our culture is getting way to caught up in the idea that a creator can control every copy and change made to his creations. If someone is shamelessly copying and gives no credit then they will be discovered and they will be rejected by the community at large. This is not shamelessly copying.

[SPIFFEN]

I think you should ask the map builder first ,
the map builder might be working on improving the map .

If you get an yes after asking , credit the map builder .

But there should be an time limit for this ! ( and rules )

If you " copy " an map , ask the maker if its okey .
Credit the maker .
If the maker doesnt answer in x weeks , there shoulnt be an problem .
( remember holidays and this like that )

But always ask and credit the map maker first !

[Karsten75]

You cannot make rules that is not enforceable. That is just a waste of everybody's time.

It is best to accept that if you make a map and post it it has become public domain and that someone can modify it.

This is why I started a thread that suggested that we talk about what we want to see in a future version of custom maps and that the map can be locked so that it cannot be opened in the map editor or that it is tied to a specific passphrase in a particular copy of the map editor. . Then authors can decide if they want to release a locked or open map.

It is unlikely that someone will modify your map in exactly the way you would "improve" it. Except, of course when Virgil introduces crazonium walls and both you and the other person decides that your map will be more interesting with crazonium walls rather than decaying walls.