Custom Map: The Temple of Moloch

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This topic is for discussion of map: The Temple of Moloch


Author: Kapoios

Desc:
In this mission you are required to save a group of babies that were meant to be sacrificed to the creeper. Can you save the infants?

This is a hard puzzle map. It does not involve direct fight with the creeper and plays with the notions of infinite and zero energy. Save those babies!

[Kapoios]

A few more comments about this map:

This map is based on the idea that you generate large amounts of energy during the first few minutes and basically zero energy during the second part.

It has a few features that I consider very novel. It features a "device" that sucks up all the energy you produce so that you can't even spare one packet for anything else in the map during the second part. It also uses the Thor in a way that it hasn't been before, utilising a disadvantage of it. The solution is also very unlike anything you would do in a normal CW map.

Tedious things like bridging or pausing every second are not required to beat this map. There is a lot of redundancy in time, energy etc., so that the player doesn't need to do anything in a "frame-perfect" or "pixel-perfect" way. Once a solution is discovered, it can be put into practice with no sweating.

Please feel free to ask for hints here. Don't forget that it is a puzzle map and meant to be rather hard. The normal methods do not work here.

[hi]

nice map =)
I hope you'll create many other puzzle maps.

[UpperKEES]

What a superb map! 8)

Loved it from start till the end during my numerous attempts to find the solution. Very nice use of various game mechanics in an unusual way; this is what original puzzle maps are all about!

This is the very first time that I wished a map contained more crazonium! ;D

Like probably most other players I was completely on the wrong track during my first attempts and even thought I found an unintended way to finish the map, but that turned out to be a huge mistake. Looking at the ratings so far this is probably the moment that people with less patience (and/or brains) give up and rate this CW gem with one star. Don't worry about that; there's always a bunch of people who think they should be able to finish a map on their first try, even though the description states that it's a hard puzzle.

What I also liked is that this puzzle doesn't require perfect timing or bridging and such to be able to solve it. There's enough time and energy (for a while ;)) to build everything required and there's no need to use one specific lay-out.

I hope you'll create many other puzzle maps.

Yes, please! :)

[UpperKEES]

Waiting 4+ minutes ever time is kind of boring, so I'll pass.

With double speed it's only 2 minutes and believe me when I say that you really need to do some very important things within that time frame. When you're fast doing so, you only have to wait for 40 seconds (20 seconds with double speed). I think that's not too much to ask for....

[RichieRich]

What a great puzzle. Not that I have finished it  ;D

I'd say I've spent an hour and a half on it and going off to think about it as I can't figure a route that delays the packets to Thor enough so there must be something else or whatever. I am not looking for hints by the way, the puzzle is spoiled when you open the envelope.

Anyway, getting hi and UpperKees to rate it really makes the other ratings irrelevant. You must have spent an age getting the balance right in this - for instance the effort to play with the emitters to prefectly must have been a real pain. Really appreciate it.

I really can't believe that is your first map it is so perfectly constructed.

Karsten you wuss, go and figure it out  :D

[Kamron3]

It was tough, but with a little help, I got to the end! :)

[Kapoios]

Seems interesting ,but my bottom survival pods got destroyed a few times well before the creeper has managed to erode the walls above them.

The reason is most likely one of these: You either tried to build something after your collection fell to 0.8 (after the factory explosion), or you disabled the "creeper switch" in the penultimate aisle. I'm saying that because it seems that many people thought that the switch is bad, but it is there to help you (I tried to make that very clear in the artifact). It is in fact perfectly correct in the moment it decides to disconnect the blaster otherwise you will waste energy and the bottom baby will die. So, don't put a relay that connects directly to the blaster except the one on the "device". Remember, after your collection drops, you can't even spare one packet of energy.

Waiting 4+ minutes ever time is kind of boring, so I'll pass.

In a play that beats the map, you will be pretty busy during most of those 4 minutes. As KEES said, you only have about half a minute to spare and only if you do everything very well. I could have made it up to 40 seconds shorter, but that extra time available is intentional, as I wanted everything to be possible to do in a very leisure and suboptimal way that doesn't require precision building, as the point of the map is not that. The point is to solve the puzzle, which I find hard and interesting by itself, not to be precise and perfect. The extra time also allows some more small variations in the solution.

I think, however, that even if you don't do anything during that time (eg. if you want to observe what happens to think about the solution) it's still not that bad. Double speed is your friend in that case and you can put double speed, come to chat, go back to CW when you hear BOOM and observe. Waiting 2 minutes is not that horrible, and there are very nice blokes in chat!

I do recommend that you give it another try (of course, it's my map, what else would I do!? :P). The solution is very satisfying.

What a great puzzle. Not that I have finished it  ;D

Thank you very much!

You must have spent an age getting the balance right in this - for instance the effort to play with the emitters to prefectly must have been a real pain. Really appreciate it.

I really can't believe that is your first map it is so perfectly constructed.

Thank you again! Designing required EXTREME precision (but solving doesn't as I keep repeating!), lots of calculations and very thorough testing. The precise "energy sucking" blaster arrangement at the bottom is far from trivial. Those emitters were indeed a great pain, especially because I was initially mistaken about how they work. I thought that emitters of 0.2 frequency will fire 5 times per second, but they actually fire every 7 frames, i.e. 5.14 times per second. This is a huge difference in this precise design and I literally spent hours trying to understand why the baby dies, when the math says that it should be surviving.

[RichieRich]

The solution is very satisfying.

Amen to that :D

[UpperKEES]

You should have given a little margin on the energy drain blaster phase, to give it a collection rate of 1.05 or something.

It has explicitly been designed to have no margin at all!

I deviated 3 packets to Thor to make it finish, and bam! baby blew. And it weren't even 3 in a row. i left several ammo packets through between each build packet.

This is supposed to happen. You shouldn't even have 1 packet to spare; that's what this puzzle is about! You need to find a different way to send that packet.... ;)

I am sure i won't try counting 159 packets to thor again. Or trying this map again.

No need to count when you play it smart. I have also been counting once during my attempts, but it isn't necessary, especially when you realize you have more than enough time to execute your solution..... if you found it! :P

[Kapoios]

Sorry I disliked this map so much.

That's ok. One man's meat is another man's poison. However, I do think you misunderstood a few bits.

The only good thing i got out of it is the discovery that OC will send packets to Thor even after the 160th (contrary to other buildings) left city, up to the moment that 160th packet arrived at the thor building site.

This is not the city sending more packets. This is a result of the packet control bug. But that's ok for this map. I was aware of it and I've made sure that this bug will neither help you nor make the solution impossible. Hopefully it will be fixed soon anyway.

You should have given a little margin on the energy drain blaster phase, to give it a collection rate of 1.05 or something. I deviated 3 packets to Thor to make it finish, and bam! baby blew. And it weren't even 3 in a row. i left several ammo packets through between each build packet.

This is exactly what you are misunderstanding. KEES, as usual, has covered this very nicely. The point of the map is exactly that. That you CAN'T divert packets to Thor to finish. No matter how precise you are, you will not be able to send even one packet to Thor after 4:00 without dying. Let alone 3! The energy collection and depletion is regulated very precisely, to many decimal digits, to make that impossible. Any more, and you could actually send one packet to Thor making the solution you imagined possible. But it's not meant to be possible and I'm confident it isn't, or you could pwn my map. Which you can't. There's something else you have to do. Therefore, try to think of another trick. Don't forget that it is a puzzle. A hard one.

[Fisherck]

Whew!, I finally did it. This is one very hard map. But I enjoyed getting to the solution very much. I have to thank you Kapoios, for making this map for all of us to play. It must have extremely difficult.

One thing I must emphasize, is something that has already been said many times. You should be very busy the first 4 minutes, without too much time left to spare. One more thing I will say, is that the answer is elegantly simple, and counterintuative, because you would not want to do this in any ordinary map.

Now, if you will excuse me, I did not spend who knows how many hours on this map just to get third place. I can drop a few more seconds... ;)  

EDIT: I guess I will stick with third, I am happy with 7:00. :)

[Kapoios]

"the trick" is buried in the forum archives, been used in a couple other maps, that you guys know of it.

To my knowledge, the trick required certainly hasn't been used before in a map or mentioned in the forums. If it has, I would be very interested to see that map!

You might think that one needs to exploit some bug or obscure mechanic, but this is not at all the case. I'm certain that you have all the knowledge you need to solve it, and searching the forums will not help. It's only a matter of getting the right idea to solve the puzzle.

I won't search. Dislike puzzles anyway.

That's perfectly fine. Some of us like them  :). I think it's great that CW has this kind of versatility that you can make very different kinds of maps.

[burguertime]

Yes, you are right, My apologies. It seems I have unconsciously entered this cycle:

http://funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/1025825/How+The+Internet+Works/

Could also be "stop being an ass and if you don't like puzzle maps, don't post on the puzzle map discussion thread."

But so did you.

"A bizarre need to prove his intelligence to strangers..."

[Kharnellius]

Ok, I am having a hard time understanding what your messages are saying.  I don't understand what the switch is supposed to do.  Is this by design?  I find the dialog hard to follow.  I honestly don't really understand what OPS and Commander are trying to say to each other.  I've read over them a hundred times and it's not making sense.

I realize I have to delay Thor's build so that the creeper doesn't get destroyed so it can be used to break down the walls.  But, I'm not sure what the blasters at the bottom are supposed to do and what this switch is all about.

I don't want everything revealed, but for crying out loud what is this switch?