Custom Map #2996: VPAC Maximum Firepower. By: Vertu

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This topic is for discussion of map #2996: VPAC Maximum Firepower


Author: Vertu
Size: 218x300

[Vertu]

I have seen a lot of statements about how easy this map is.
I tried to make sure the lag didn't ruin the experience and made 20 minutes 2 hours but I am most confidant that with how optimized the VAUs are and other such units compared to just map size, I can most certainly add some more spice and am debating if I should.

[348Joey]

The anti air is completely useless. Absolute garbage. For the love of all that is good, PLEASE INCREASE MISSLE TURN SPEEED. 98% or more of the time, they just circle around one air unit that occasionally moves until the missile is shot down or runs into the ground. Slow down the projectile, freeze the targeted unit, have the missile turn ALL the way towards a target, increase missile turn rate, or just have it be an instant beam. "Hit detection" isn't the problem. The problem is the missiles are not agile enough to hit anything, especially not a moving target that needs to be locked on to.
This was the most infuriating VPAC I've ever played. I normally LOVE your maps, but this has always been and is still the biggest issue with them. You need to have anti air that works consistently, or it will enrage anyone who watches the platforms that have only one job: to shoot at aircraft, fail every goddamn time. Nerfing the damage the Anti Air does only made it more annoying.
This applies to both the "Light anti-air" and the "TCML", but it is much worse with the "TCML". I think the easiest fix would be to slow the projectiles down significantly when they target an air unit, but that's basically just a guess..

[Vertu]

The TCML is not anti-air. It is a tactical missile and if you are familiar with Supreme Commander FAF you would know the hit chance of a missile hitting a moving unit is basically 0% (though that's
because they don't track or lock on). The SAM had it's damage per missile reduced by 0.05 from the previous version on the previous map so they don't over-scale now they are no more than 2 power.
You may be mistaken with how the Fighter actually got a health increase (after debating a good bit) and thought all forms of AA was nerfed. I demoted the SAM-A.V into a Light SAM because it really wasn't Anti-VAU but there was no big nerf unless you call 0.05 less damage per missile a big nerf (which is 0.3 damage nerf per SAM btw but come on it's 2 power!). I am actually working on a special unit that will take pot-shots at the VAUs if they are in range (though by no means is specialized in shooting VAUs), and this reminds me that I should check the SAM range to make sure they have a large enough difference in their horizontal range.

But good lord, the TCML is not anti-air. It used to be, but it was never effective. If it was also good anti-air, it would make it too good for only 4 power and the SAM may not of existed. Also the missiles can hit VAUs but this is only noticeable when you have an entire swarm chasing one target where 3 or 5 /30 will hit.
You will know when a PAC unit is truly Anti-VAU but for now, just please stick to Surface to Air Missile launcher battalions now that they are only 2 power. I will not be lowering it to 1 power EVER. Might also increase the range now that I think of it.

What's going on in lore is that the VAUs are far superior when it comes to getting punched in the face and not realizing it. So something that annihilates bombers and any other flying unit while providing them a free ticket to the local star in the solar system turns out to be light-arms-fire in the perspective of VAUs. I have also learned this fact over time hence how the SAM went from 6 power to now 2 and now called "light" meanwhile it is not "light" in the slightest. Just "light" when shooting VAUs.

[Brila]

For 2 Power i stick with the advanced emitter. That is basically all you need for this map, a couple of launchers may make it easier but it is not necessary. Not sure the point on the SAM and TCML but you can ignore them, like the rest.

But another thing drives me crazy. The amount of custom units press my 10700k with 16gb memory on the ground of 8 fps (or what the ticks are called left below) It starts raising if i manage to break through and destroy the first of them near the end and with every building destroyed, the ticks start racing again. Maybe they need some optimation.

[Vertu]

For 2 Power i stick with the advanced emitter. That is basically all you need for this map, a couple of launchers may make it easier but it is not necessary. Not sure the point on the SAM and TCML but you can ignore them, like the rest.

But another thing drives me crazy. The amount of custom units press my 10700k with 16gb memory on the ground of 8 fps (or what the ticks are called left below) It starts raising if i manage to break through and destroy the first of them near the end and with every building destroyed, the ticks start racing again. Maybe they need some optimation.

I have optimized them to hell and back.
What hasn't however are the resource fabricators which have now been singled-out for being a performance hazard. When I use them again in a VPAC map I will see how to better optimize them before releasing that map.
I can only do so much as sometimes it feels that in order to further optimize some CPacks, it would require going into the hardcode of CW4 and doing something there. Which I obviously can't do and would also obviously not do nearly as well of a job as experienced Knuckle Kracker.
Also I have been eying the Advanced Emitter. It's a bit strong too easily but the math is funky over there for it's reclaim protocol. Very hit or miss in balance and considering how difficult it was to make it useful, have stuck to the math numbers from long ago which worked well.

[Brila]

I do not think the emitter is the problem here, it is the unlimited provided ERNS. You can for sure do the same thing with the basic emitter, it just takes longer to beat the map. No complains from my side about that, i love watching the creeper take over the map. I hope CP5 will be the Creeper side, its more fun to play.

[Vertu]

I do not think the emitter is the problem here, it is the unlimited provided ERNS. You can for sure do the same thing with the basic emitter, it just takes longer to beat the map. No complains from my side about that, i love watching the creeper take over the map. I hope CP5 will be the Creeper side, its more fun to play.

I am aware of this but still, an Adv.Emitter can output some 725 or so every 0.5 seconds you get slapped by a nuke. For only 2 power that is very powerful, especially when the AntiNuke takes 5 to only reduce the damage sustained by a nuke from at least it's blast of energy compressing the atmosphere and vaporizing Creeper on the surface from the beginning of the Exosphere. Even worse is how it easily takes only one nuke fully landing anywhere in your Creeper territory to cause Adv.Emtrs to go to half of this, some 325/0.5 sec. This means the AntiNUKE is only really useful at the frontlines where even the low amount of damage from an intercepted nuke can ruin your progress and give the enemy time to rebuild and reclaim territory. The biggest problem is that Adv.Emiters fight back the loss of Creeper too well as when a nuke lands uncontested, the total Creeper is replenished back to as though it never landed, very easily and as swiftly as some 10 in-game seconds.
The more this is talked about and the more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes that they need a balance update. Their power cost was based on keeping them at least somewhat useful even when not loosing large amounts of Creeper but 50% efficiency at base emission in Power-Creeper conversion compared to a basic Emitter at this point is a lot larger than it looked in the past.
If you got nuked, the punishment of loosing tons of Creeper should last longer than 10 in-game seconds I feel. So in the next map, the Adv.Emitter will need total Creeper to reach lower levels (currently <= 95%) before reaching maximum output (probably will change to <= 90% or 85%) and use 3 power at least, all in the end concluded based on testing the playing of these numbers.

This mission was meant to be an easy and still XL sized PAC map unlike Prospector Fortress while adding the 3rd objective of keeping the mission time reasonable assuming you are stuck playing at 15FPS from slowdown as it typically happens as most people seem to like using a laptop for CW4 (though if your computer isn't the issue, you can increase game speed to 2x to fight against this slowdown, having the game run 2 frames every cycle or however it actually works). I have experienced the horror of slowdown at 1/3 speed or 5 FPS in sim-speed (Nexious 3 Hardcore unreleased, Nexious 10 Hardcore unreleased, and my first ever PAC map which failed due to this issue)  enough times in the past and have seen consistent enough evidence of many apparently having a slower computer than that retired 8 year old PC of mine that I experienced said slowdown on, to be super conscious about how quickly the mission's pace is as a normal mission time of say 30 minutes could of actually of been 60 minutes in real time, becoming exponentially worse the slower the sim-speed becomes if the player could only run the mission at 15FPS sim-speed, doubling the time they play the mission and this gets exponentially worse the less FPS in sim-speed as it now only takes 10 less FPS to double the real-time of the mission again (and getting to 1/4 sim-speed is very difficult and VERY SLOW that no one in their right mind will tolerate any slower than 1/3 or 10 FPS sim-speed, using 2x speed to fight it back if they can). CW4 will do it's best to ensure the game doesn't run with stutters, preventing the game from what some may say, "becoming a PowerPoint presentation" at worse.

[Freed]

was ok - but yes, it was to big and for that reason to slow. was nice to use spores for one island, tcml for the other and blobs for the last. after that i realize, that i missed to place the forge :D would have been a lot easier.^^ but you left the right side unguarded (compared to the left side) - as soon as I killed the link in front of the hills, I could just go fort the kill with spores. would have been faster but where´s the fun? :D

[Nimitz]

I'm really loving these maps you're making!  Even if there are some issues here and there you're creating some great content with a lot of replay value.  The learning curve was high on a few of them, but the challenge was fun.