Custom Map #2301: Channel of Tranquility. By: Grabz

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This topic is for discussion of map #2301: Channel of Tranquility


Author: Grabz
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[Grabz]

Hey all! Starting with this version of Mystery Boxes you can now choose the difficulty of the RNG at the start of the level. The existing difficulty was moved into Hard and there are now three difficulty brackets - Easy, Normal, Hard. I also included a section on drop chances on the Mystery Boxes forum thread in the "Difficulty & Chances" section that explains how each difficulty affects the boxes.

Let me know how the new difficulties feel. I want to try and balance them so that everyone can have a good time and there will be further tweaks coming if there are still issues.

For the record I do all my playthroughs on Hard to prove it is possible, but if you wish to have an easier time feel free to do so :)

I hope this can ease some of the tension that we've been having, as we did not want to ruin our own experience with the maps by making them too easy for ourselves, but we also wanted others to have a fun time, so it was difficult to marry the two problems prior to the difficulty toggle.

[Deadl0ck]

Grabz, Thank you for listening to the criticism and making a incredible change to your mod by adding the difficulty settings! I appreciate you taking on board people's comments, and putting in the significant effort to do a rework of an amazing concept.

I've read before that the order gets selected once you unpause, I imagine that means that you should select difficulty after closing ADA, but before unpausing? I haven't tested it myself, as I don't have time to sit down with your new map just yet, but what would happen if you unpause before selecting a difficulty? Is there something to prevent that from happening, or does it default to a setting, when that happens?

Also, I'd like to bring another (possibly even easier) suggestion, that will not cause the people that want hard mode any issues, and gives an even more flexible range of difficulty. As has been done in most box maps, just put down a handful more "off" units waiting to be built, so people can delete, or use them as they see fit, to give them an early edge, and they can use / delete how many they want. The standard unit build cost will be higher than the first few friendly boxes so you can't use them straight away, but you'll be sure to get something useful. Just 1or 2 more mortars/cannons/snipers/launchers, the basic units. Nothing major long term, not enough to deal with a mystery box, but enough to build and hold your early foothold just a little easier.

That way people that want the early start can use them, while people that want the hard start can delete the units. After having played several of these maps, I've found my personal issue isn't with spawn chances of the mystery / titan boxes. My issue is that I get screwed by the friendly boxes spawning a ton of resource nodes and miners rather than combat units early on. (Mid game I occasionally have the reverse problem, but that's far easier to adjust to.) Which I get is part of the game mode, but having it happen several times in a row is just frustrating and not fun. Given the replies to some of the other maps that use the box mod, it's safe to assume I'm not the only one that runs into this.

Just a small suggestion to make your maps stay true to your concept, but also more widely accessible for enjoyment to a bigger range of people. What you already have done is amazing. Thanks again!

[Grabz]

I've read before that the order gets selected once you unpause, I imagine that means that you should select difficulty after closing ADA, but before unpausing? I haven't tested it myself, as I don't have time to sit down with your new map just yet, but what would happen if you unpause before selecting a difficulty? Is there something to prevent that from happening, or does it default to a setting, when that happens?

The map will not allow you to unpause until a difficulty is selected, however should you find a way to advance the game regardless (as it appears currently while I can stop players from unpausing I cannot stop players from frame advancing the game) the script that determines the rolls will wait until a difficulty is chosen. In Mverse the host is the only one that can select difficulty and the selection gets transmitted to the other players.

After having played several of these maps, I've found my personal issue isn't with spawn chances of the mystery / titan boxes. My issue is that I get screwed by the friendly boxes spawning a ton of resource nodes and miners rather than combat units early on.

Perhaps a better way to handle this would be to tinker with the friend box drops a bit on easy/normal to make them spawn less resources (and perhaps make the resources stronger to make up for the loss in drop chance), thus they would spawn more units. Since resource drop rate is already increased on the mystery box on easy/normal as well, lack of resources shouldn't ultimately be a concern.

If you do try the map out, do let me know how things feel on easy/normal and I'll see into further adjustments for future maps :)

[Deadl0ck]

The map will not allow you to unpause until a difficulty is selected, however should you find a way to advance the game regardless (as it appears currently while I can stop players from unpausing I cannot stop players from frame advancing the game) the script that determines the rolls will wait until a difficulty is chosen. In Mverse the host is the only one that can select difficulty and the selection gets transmitted to the other players.

Awesome. It's one of those small things that can get overlooked when you're designing things, and my job used to be beta testing / asshole proofing things, hence why I was curious if you had planned for this eventuality. Great to see you're on it!

Perhaps a better way to handle this would be to tinker with the friend box drops a bit on easy/normal to make them spawn less resources (and perhaps make the resources stronger to make up for the loss in drop chance), thus they would spawn more units. Since resource drop rate is already increased on the mystery box on easy/normal as well, lack of resources shouldn't ultimately be a concern.

If you do try the map out, do let me know how things feel on easy/normal and I'll see into further adjustments for future maps :)

Will do! My suggestion was more based in "What would work and cause you the least amount of hassle." though of course your suggestion is far more elegant, it'd just mean more programming work on your end.

[Deadl0ck]

Got around to playing the map, First time Normal mode worked perfectly for my preferred playstyle of turtling, while the lack of units straight off kept the early game challenging, mystery boxes, and lack of bluite nodes kept things interesting until the end. Specifically the firework boxes, as getting a shower of emps was almost the end of me even after I had already taken care of the skimmer nest. and I could barely hold the crimson at bay due to the well placed crimson tree and lack of bluite nodes  in my spawns this time around.

[hypnotic22]

Got around to playing the map, First time Normal mode worked perfectly for my preferred playstyle of turtling, while the lack of units straight off kept the early game challenging, mystery boxes, and lack of bluite nodes kept things interesting until the end. Specifically the firework boxes, as getting a shower of emps was almost the end of me even after I had already taken care of the skimmer nest. and I could barely hold the crimson at bay due to the well placed crimson tree and lack of bluite nodes  in my spawns this time around.

now this is funny, i called you average at a game.  (https://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=39233) (post number 9)
then you started blaming the RNG and saying that no skills are needed at all. yet here we are, you are saying that Normal mode is perfect for you, and you even had some trouble with it. "hard atm is the old mode"
it seems to me that i hit the nail on the head from the start, once more i'll say. i'm willing to try and help you get better if you want.

as you might know we are some who play on hard mode and are having a good time, why is that, how can we have fun on hard if that just kills you and you end up having a bad time.
guess we just have better luck than you, as you say no skill are needed at all. right?

well in the end it doesn't even matter, i hope you have lots of fun with the box maps now that we have difficulty settings.
as always i wish you good luck and good health

[Deadl0ck]

now this is funny, i called you average at a game.  (https://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=39233) (post number 9)
then you started blaming the RNG and saying that no skills are needed at all. yet here we are, you are saying that Normal mode is perfect for you, and you even had some trouble with it. "hard atm is the old mode"

Correct. I was getting less screwed over by the RNG, and therefore had a more pleasurable experience rather than having to restart the map until I got a good roll of the dice to establish a base, and not having to change my preferred playstyle to something hyper aggressive and fast paced or with a ton of pausing and micromanaging, or using cheese tactics. Also my problem with your attitude is not related to how you responded to (just) me. It's about how you responded to nearly EVERYONE that had issues with how the mod worked.

it seems to me that i hit the nail on the head from the start, once more i'll say. i'm willing to try and help you get better if you want.
as you might know we are some who play on hard mode and are having a good time, why is that, how can we have fun on hard if that just kills you and you end up having a bad time.

Again with the arrogance. It's not about what you're saying. It's how you say it. I can beat the maps on hard mode. I love the maps on hard mode if I get a good unit line up. I beat all the older maps, and this one after I finished it on normal. Like I said in my very first post, I love the concept. I just don't care to have to restart 5-10 times because I get screwed over by RNG and lose a ton of progress, when I only have a limited time to play games.
I come back to (regular) maps I struggle with, or fail at, to try different tactics and see if I can do better. I get a dopamine hit from improving my game. However when what units you get, or even if you get units, is completely arbitrary, there is no joy in restarting maps. It is just frustrating aand aggravating.
I play this game to relax and have fun after a stressful day at work / being an adult / caring for sick family and friends / unwind from functioning in society as a neurodivergent. I don't have hours a day to pour into it.
It is not relaxing to get screwed over because of RNG deciding I'm not getting that one sniper or mortar or cannon for 5 boxes in a row, that I'm so desperately needing to finish a line of defence at some point, several restarts in a row.

guess we just have better luck than you, as you say no skill are needed at all. right?

In part, yes. Im sure that if your first 10-12 units consist of missile launchers, resource nodes, snipers, and other things that can't actually shoot creeper, you'd struggle as well.
Also I never said you're not a good player. I'm saying that you're arrogantly bragging you're good with a mod that is heavily dependent on RNG, which is pointless. I'm sure that you'll be better at me on the same map with the same limited number of units. Never disputed that for one minute.
My issue with you is, and always has been, your general tone of superiority and arrogance when people comment about the obviously unfairly biased original / hard difficulty. Not to me specifically, because I don't care about someone that gets their self-worth from being (supposedly) great at a game and informing others of this any chance they get, but there's kids that play these games too, and they don't deserve to be made to feel like dirt by your tone, either reading your comments to others, or as a direct response to them. You might be good at the game, but communication?

well in the end it doesn't even matter, i hope you have lots of fun with the box maps now that we have difficulty settings.

Yes, I very much enjoy the changes that Grabz made to the mod, I believe less than 10 days after you were saying that nothing could be done about the difficulty. Funny, that.

as always i wish you good luck and good health

You do realise that this, combined with your constant arrogant tone, just comes across as condescending, right? Not to mention it's kind of a messed up thing to say to complete strangers in general, when you don't know if they, as a few examples, just had their house burn down, or were robbed, or just had an accident, or might be terminally ill or have chronic health issues.

[TrickyPlayer]

i'm willing to try and help you get better if you want.

Lemme explain a few things to you instead of just calling you names. (Skip to 6 if you don't like reading a lot of text)
I put them in a spoiler because otherwise it would have been way too much text.

Spoiler

1: Luck and Skill are two completely different things. In some games, the both of them work together in harmony. This game mode does not, so telling others to "get better" will only cause frustration. This is one of the easiest ways to trigger me by far, and I'm surprised I'm still being decently nice while writing this.

2: This is a rare game mode. Not a lot of maps are made by it. Therefore, people may not want to get better at it by just replaying a ton of times. Instead, having different difficulties is a nice solution (Thanks to Grabz for that)

3: Not everyone likes playing the same map over and over again. In fact, I sometimes cut content from my own maps if I had to replay them several times already. I gotta admit that on it's own, the single sentence I quoted isn't too offensive, so I'll let this one slide.

4: Just because you like high difficulties, doesn't mean that others do. Not everyone is insanely competitive. They might eventually get pissed off if you keep telling them you're better in a way that makes it seem as if the other person is not good. In my opinion, someone is already good if they can beat any objective on my "wave" map, yet you were compelled to do reclaim which wasn't even meant to be possible in the first place. Point being: even though you are better than someone else, that doesn't mean they are bad. Maybe you're just VERY good at something.

5: I just liked to make a long list so I added this idk

6: Be nice. Even if others aren't as good as you, treat them with respect.

7: Respect the fact that others are, too, human. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. It's a bigger mistake, however, to point other's mistakes out where it serves no purpose. People get annoyed and eventually start thinking of you as a bully (in the most extreme case)

8: I wanna make this go to ten so I still dunno what to put here but did this anyway

9: Even after reading all of these ways to improve, don't start calling me names. If you would like to address how persistently I'm trying to get things better for everyone, at least tell me in a respectful manner so others won't think badly of you.

10: While others are of course important, don't let yourself down. If you feel like injustice is done against you or someone else, feel free to step up APPROPRIATELY. And of course, pointing out that someone is acting rather oddly is okay most of the time, but try to stay nice. People don't like feeling negative emotions, as you probably know.

[close]

I'm trying to help you. I feel as if people will start completely ignoring you or disregarding things you say if you keep going the way you did just there. I'm saying that, because I'm kinda feeling like doing it myself, but I suppose I wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself in my perspective.

[hypnotic22]

as always i wish you good luck and good health

You do realise that this, combined with your constant arrogant tone, just comes across as condescending, right? Not to mention it's kind of a messed up thing to say to complete strangers in general, when you don't know if they, as a few examples, just had their house burn down, or were robbed, or just had an accident, or might be terminally ill or have chronic health issues.

no i do not, i have some chronic health issues and to me being told " i wish you good luck and good health " is nice.
this is a place to discuss the map and the game not my people skills but if you have to know.
english is my second language and im bad at it, i am dyslexic you see so when i use text to communicate it is rough and i'm not good at using "nice" words, being dyslexic limits me a lot.
i regret nothing but this is getting stupid.

once more this is not the place for this conversation, if you are not just full of hot air DM me so we can have a proper talk or even better find me on the CW4 discord and DM me.

[hypnotic22]

i'm willing to try and help you get better if you want.

Lemme explain a few things to you instead of just calling you names. (Skip to 6 if you don't like reading a lot of text)
I put them in a spoiler because otherwise it would have been way too much text.

Spoiler

1: Luck and Skill are two completely different things. In some games, the both of them work together in harmony. This game mode does not, so telling others to "get better" will only cause frustration. This is one of the easiest ways to trigger me by far, and I'm surprised I'm still being decently nice while writing this.

2: This is a rare game mode. Not a lot of maps are made by it. Therefore, people may not want to get better at it by just replaying a ton of times. Instead, having different difficulties is a nice solution (Thanks to Grabz for that)

3: Not everyone likes playing the same map over and over again. In fact, I sometimes cut content from my own maps if I had to replay them several times already. I gotta admit that on it's own, the single sentence I quoted isn't too offensive, so I'll let this one slide.

4: Just because you like high difficulties, doesn't mean that others do. Not everyone is insanely competitive. They might eventually get pissed off if you keep telling them you're better in a way that makes it seem as if the other person is not good. In my opinion, someone is already good if they can beat any objective on my "wave" map, yet you were compelled to do reclaim which wasn't even meant to be possible in the first place. Point being: even though you are better than someone else, that doesn't mean they are bad. Maybe you're just VERY good at something.

5: I just liked to make a long list so I added this idk

6: Be nice. Even if others aren't as good as you, treat them with respect.

7: Respect the fact that others are, too, human. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. It's a bigger mistake, however, to point other's mistakes out where it serves no purpose. People get annoyed and eventually start thinking of you as a bully (in the most extreme case)

8: I wanna make this go to ten so I still dunno what to put here but did this anyway

9: Even after reading all of these ways to improve, don't start calling me names. If you would like to address how persistently I'm trying to get things better for everyone, at least tell me in a respectful manner so others won't think badly of you.

10: While others are of course important, don't let yourself down. If you feel like injustice is done against you or someone else, feel free to step up APPROPRIATELY. And of course, pointing out that someone is acting rather oddly is okay most of the time, but try to stay nice. People don't like feeling negative emotions, as you probably know.

[close]

I'm trying to help you. I feel as if people will start completely ignoring you or disregarding things you say if you keep going the way you did just there. I'm saying that, because I'm kinda feeling like doing it myself, but I suppose I wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself in my perspective.

i can understand what you are trying to tell me but you are starting to walk down the wrong path as Deadl0ck do. if i have to be the big bad wolf ill do it!!
this is a place to discuss the map and map related stuff, what you and Deadl0ck have posted have no business here. if you are interested in helping me improve my people skills DM me or even better DM me on discord  ;)

i know i'm not that good with words but all of this is in the eye of the beholder, not all are gonna see the same as you, not all are gonna think i'm arrogant
and that is exactly why what you and Deadl0ck post have no business here.

[Deadl0ck]

Bit of a very late response as I've been very sick, and had to deal with the death of two friends, and a bad depression. But I felt the need to reply to this.

as always i wish you good luck and good health

You do realise that this, combined with your constant arrogant tone, just comes across as condescending, right? Not to mention it's kind of a messed up thing to say to complete strangers in general, when you don't know if they, as a few examples, just had their house burn down, or were robbed, or just had an accident, or might be terminally ill or have chronic health issues.

no i do not, i have some chronic health issues and to me being told " i wish you good luck and good health " is nice.

Well sorry to say that for most people I know, if a complete stranger with an arrogance problem told them that, they'd go off on them.

this is a place to discuss the map and the game

Yet you decided to personally attack me (yet again) in this thread, rather than letting me express my gratitude to Grabz for his mod changes, and explaining how they changed my experience with the game.

english is my second language

Cool, it's my third language, well done on being duolingual.

and im bad at it,

No, you're not. Don't put yourself down.

i am dyslexic you see so when i use text to communicate it is rough 

That sucks. I know how hard it is to be dyslectic. My sister jumbles her letters so bad she basically can't read or write.

i'm not good at using "nice" words, being dyslexic limits me a lot.

Bullshit. Being dyslectic has nothing to do with having good manners and being considerate. Don't use a disability as an excuse, that's disrespectful to anyone with a disability.

i regret nothing but this is getting stupid.

This was stupid a long time ago, but you decided to come after me again when I wasn't even talking to you.

once more this is not the place for this conversation,

Then you shouldn't have come after me.

if you are not just full of hot air DM me so we can have a proper talk or even better find me on the CW4 discord and DM me.

I have nothing to prove to you. I have no intrest in talking to you. You're the one that acts pompous and full of hot air. I just don't take bullshit, and logically address your arguments.

[Deadl0ck]

i'm willing to try and help you get better if you want.

Lemme explain a few things to you instead of just calling you names. (Skip to 6 if you don't like reading a lot of text)
I put them in a spoiler because otherwise it would have been way too much text.

Spoiler

1: Luck and Skill are two completely different things. In some games, the both of them work together in harmony. This game mode does not, so telling others to "get better" will only cause frustration. This is one of the easiest ways to trigger me by far, and I'm surprised I'm still being decently nice while writing this.

2: This is a rare game mode. Not a lot of maps are made by it. Therefore, people may not want to get better at it by just replaying a ton of times. Instead, having different difficulties is a nice solution (Thanks to Grabz for that)

3: Not everyone likes playing the same map over and over again. In fact, I sometimes cut content from my own maps if I had to replay them several times already. I gotta admit that on it's own, the single sentence I quoted isn't too offensive, so I'll let this one slide.

4: Just because you like high difficulties, doesn't mean that others do. Not everyone is insanely competitive. They might eventually get pissed off if you keep telling them you're better in a way that makes it seem as if the other person is not good. In my opinion, someone is already good if they can beat any objective on my "wave" map, yet you were compelled to do reclaim which wasn't even meant to be possible in the first place. Point being: even though you are better than someone else, that doesn't mean they are bad. Maybe you're just VERY good at something.

5: I just liked to make a long list so I added this idk

6: Be nice. Even if others aren't as good as you, treat them with respect.

7: Respect the fact that others are, too, human. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. It's a bigger mistake, however, to point other's mistakes out where it serves no purpose. People get annoyed and eventually start thinking of you as a bully (in the most extreme case)

8: I wanna make this go to ten so I still dunno what to put here but did this anyway

9: Even after reading all of these ways to improve, don't start calling me names. If you would like to address how persistently I'm trying to get things better for everyone, at least tell me in a respectful manner so others won't think badly of you.

10: While others are of course important, don't let yourself down. If you feel like injustice is done against you or someone else, feel free to step up APPROPRIATELY. And of course, pointing out that someone is acting rather oddly is okay most of the time, but try to stay nice. People don't like feeling negative emotions, as you probably know.

[close]

I'm trying to help you. I feel as if people will start completely ignoring you or disregarding things you say if you keep going the way you did just there. I'm saying that, because I'm kinda feeling like doing it myself, but I suppose I wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself in my perspective.

Thank you for being far more eloquent in explaining what I've been trying to get across forever. Also love your maps!

[Deadl0ck]

I'm trying to help you. I feel as if people will start completely ignoring you or disregarding things you say if you keep going the way you did just there. I'm saying that, because I'm kinda feeling like doing it myself, but I suppose I wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself in my perspective.

i can understand what you are trying to tell me but you are starting to walk down the wrong path as Deadl0ck do. if i have to be the big bad wolf ill do it!!

I honestly have to wonder what you think you'll get out of threatening someone that is trying to give you advice, and clearly has more patience than I do. This is exactly my point. You do this with almost every critical comment I've seen people make, you either take a stance of arrogance, or threaten them, rather than selfreflect. What even does "if i have to be the big bad wolf ill do it!!" mean? It's obviously a threat... but also just empty hot air.

this is a place to discuss the map and map related stuff, what you and Deadl0ck have posted have no business here. if you are interested in helping me improve my people skills DM me or even better DM me on discord  ;)

So... first you fire off an empty threat, then tell both Trickyplayer and me we have no business here (even though, once again, you came after me, in this thread.) and then ask for help? Do you really think anyone would ever help you if you treat them this way? threaten them, then tell them they have no business replying to things you say on a discussion forum, and then ask for help?

also you keep telling me, and now Trickyplayer to take it up with you in DM. Why should we do it? You keep saying things like this don't belong on the public forum. yet rather than reply in DM, you reply publicly, then tell us off for doing the same thing. Quite hypocritical. 

i know i'm not that good with words

Again not an excuse for acting superior and arrogant.

but all of this is in the eye of the beholder, not all are gonna see the same as you, not all are gonna think i'm arrogant

Or maybe they're just too polite/scared/intimidated by your arrogance and empty threats to say anything to your face. As trickyplayer rightfully pointed out, your attitude is making you look quite similar to a bully, and while I don't give a fuck about that, it has intimidated other people.

and that is exactly why what you and Deadl0ck post have no business here.

Wait... we can't say anything because not everyone thinks or says you're arrogant? That makes what we have to say invalid or something? Come on, you must know life doesn't actually work that way right?

P.S.

I do apologise Trickyplayer for using your name. I know your issue here isn't the same as mine, and I don't mean to speak for you. I apologise if it has come across as such.

[cornucanis]

Was it really necessary to necropost and revive a 3 month old mudslinging thread? Can we not just let this die and move on with our lives already? It's very distasteful to keep making these posts that are doing nothing but attacking another user's character, at this point the posts have absolutely nothing to do with the map that this thread is supposed to be related to.