Time limits on maps - why?

[UpperKEES]

I've always wondered why some map makers create time limits for their maps. I'm not talking about a time limit for a certain section (I've done this myself) or a time limit to reach a certain item (i.e. survival pods were invented for this purpose), but I'm talking about a time limit that complete wipes you off the map, like a massive spore wave or a delayed 1000 intensity emitter that goes off after 1 hour.

When a player is less experienced and takes longer to finish a map than the average player, he's already 'punished' by getting a lower score, so why hurt him/her twice? When you are about to complete a map after a long battle and then get surprised by such a thing, would you start playing the same map again just for those last 5 minutes?

Of course knowing there's a time limit might increase the pressure and excitement a bit, but there are other ways to make a map increasingly difficult, with more satisfaction when you've finally completed it in my opinion.

Please tell me if and why you (dis)like these kind of terminal map endings.

[cquante]

I agree with you.  I find forced time limits irritating.  As a new player, I avoided those maps like crazy.  Now as a slightly more experienced player, I will occasionally try them.  I STILL hate it when I'm a minute away from completing the map, and I get destroyed.  I don't waste my time playing the map again.

[Blaze]

I don't mind it as long as you know beforehand!

[F0R]

agreed

[Karsten75]

One reason I can think of is that if forces the map classification in the maps view page. :) shorter maps get more downloads. so if all the times on a map are short times, then the map gets downloaded more times.  Just a thought, I doubt anyone put that much thought into it.

[mthw2vc]

I've always wondered why some map makers create time limits for their maps. I'm not talking about a time limit for a certain section (I've done this myself) or a time limit to reach a certain item (i.e. survival pods were invented for this purpose), but I'm talking about a time limit that complete wipes you off the map, like a massive spore wave or a delayed 1000 intensity emitter that goes off after 1 hour.

I mainly use this tactic because my crazy plot requires it. When I'm done with campaign 1, I'll mostly stop with it.

When a player is less experienced and takes longer to finish a map than the average player, he's already 'punished' by getting a lower score, so why hurt him/her twice? When you are about to complete a map after a long battle and then get surprised by such a thing, would you start playing the same map again just for those last 5 minutes?

Because they infuriate me, therefore I actually want to finish them. (if you'll note, most of the maps I've submitted a score on are very difficult)

Of course knowing there's a time limit might increase the pressure and excitement a bit, but there are other ways to make a map increasingly difficult, with more satisfaction when you've finally completed it in my opinion.

I already use those methods enough. Just crack open my fourth map (Or my sixth when I'm done with it) in the editor and examine the emitters.

Please tell me if and why you (dis)like these kind of terminal map endings.

I'm fine with them as long as I know about them in advance. If they come out of nowhere, though, they can be annoying.

[Neilos]

Kind of depends for me.  I look at the time limit published and the scores posted, and decide if it's worth it.  I prefer a map that takes at least ten minutes to finish (I like getting into the game, rather than finishing before that can occur), so timers under ten minutes will usually put me off unless my supply of maps is low.

[F0R]

it just gives pressure on the map

[Kamron3]

I like making my maps impossible-like, so I love time limit or sand traps.

_k

[Xirema]

Of course knowing there's a time limit might increase the pressure and excitement a bit...

This in spades.  ;D

I've included Time Limit type elements on every map I've submitted thus-far. The biggest reason I add them is because when you're given an infinite amount of time to accomplish a task, then it is literally, only a matter of time until you finish. I don't personally see why a map should be deemed above "Medium" (or even "Easy" in some cases) if there isn't a mechanic that forces you to work faster than you might otherwise be comfortable. I like the chance of failure resulting from a too slowly executed plan.

Even if the map presents heavy creeper. But mass-spawning your attack units, backed by the packet limit of 32 packets per second, just doesn't strike me as being the epitome of challenge in this game.

... there are other ways to make a map increasingly difficult...

Of course there's always a turning point, but good maps makers will be able to postpone that moment as long as possible, sometimes until 1 minute before finishing the map. Randomness is not needed for that. You can for instance stack delayed emitters (so the amount of creeper increases over time), use walls to release more creeper, make the race for every tech a mini game, or limit the amount of units available by withholding the tech and only supply a few (initially locked) weapons (so losing them might cause failure), etcetera.

Granted. But what I've found, more frequently than not, is that there always comes a point, well beyond the onset of difficulty effects, where all the player needs to do is hunker down long enough so that he has enough energy and storage that when he finally advances, the only thing stopping him is the sudden onset of heart disease caused by the player spending too much time playing on the computer in the first place.  ::)

Seriously though, "Holding the Line" as waves and waves of creeper approach is only challenging (to me) so long as you can't keep using the same strategy forever. Steadily incrementing the creeper spawn rates is a nice choice-- One that I have used to some degree in the past-- But with how powerful some Turtling strategies can be, it just seems like there tend to be only two real options: Forcing the player to fight so aggressively that Attila the Hun would soil his pants at every mention of this player's aggression, or capping the time they have. Option 1 is a valid and real option that I have seen before..... In maps I can't beat. Which means that I can't make maps that use that strategy because, at least for the time being, I can't beat those maps, and as a result, can't submit maps I can't beat. If/when I become a better player, that will be a tangible option for me, but until then, Time Limits are how I roll.

And shy of all that, I would point at maps like my Limit Break series, where taking as much time as you want means trivializing the fact that you're supposed to be given limited energy and storage for the duration of the map anyways.

When a player is less experienced and takes longer to finish a map than the average player, he's already 'punished' by getting a lower score, so why hurt him/her twice? When you are about to complete a map after a long battle and then get surprised by such a thing, would you start playing the same map again just for those last 5 minutes?

Well, I personally never set time limits above half an hour (my highest is 21 minutes on my recently posted Sequence map, and that one really resets itself, partially, every 3 minutes anyways, and is, above all else, more a concept map) but I would draw attention to some of my play-testing for my earlier maps, specifically, Uphill Struggle II and Limit Break II. Both of these maps were in play-testing for weeks (when they really only took about half an hour each to construct in the first place) because at the time, I wasn't good enough to finish my own maps within the constraints I had set. But by practicing on them, I got better at the game and was later able to break the time limits by a substantially larger span of time than I had ever anticipated would be possible. (And then other players shattered MY record. Ego == Obliterated)

So just my two cents. I certainly understand why others might not favor it as a mechanic, but I thought I'd offer my own insight.  :P

EDIT: Added links, since it occurred to me as an afterthought that it might be beneficial for reference.
EDIT²:

One reason I can think of is that if forces the map classification in the maps view page. :) shorter maps get more downloads. so if all the times on a map are short times, then the map gets downloaded more times.  Just a thought, I doubt anyone put that much thought into it.

This has occurred to me, but only as an after-the-fact thought. I swear it.  :D

[ontheworld]

I've included Time Limit type elements on every map I've submitted thus-far. The biggest reason I add them is because when you're given an infinite amount of time to accomplish a task, then it is literally, only a matter of time until you finish. I don't personally see why a map should be deemed above "Medium" (or even "Easy" in some cases) if there isn't a mechanic that forces you to work faster than you might otherwise be comfortable. I like the chance of failure resulting from a too slowly executed plan.

Even if the map presents heavy creeper. But mass-spawning your attack units, backed by the packet limit of 32 packets per second, just doesn't strike me as being the epitome of challenge in this game.

a map with limeted space won't allow the 32 packets without deficit, meaning you'll die in the end.

also many "hard" maps just give you a though time starting up, and you can't beat a game without having a staring defence

[Karsten75]

There are many maps without a time limit that meet their respective classifications of easy, medium, hard, etc.  without a time limit. Some of these maps do not allow the luxury of allowing you to build up a standoff position - you have to fight for space for every blaster, reactor or other unit you need to position.

Since the game ranks players in order of descending time, cutting off the (s)lower players simply prevents them from playing the game. While it is legitimate for many maps, it is still not something I agree with as a rule.

[wessew]

theese types of maps are great and as a so-so and slow player, i try theese maps all the time to make me better just did one last night and spent an hour and a half to get a score of1:19  TO TIE FOR FIRST

map is THE END 4 would hyperlink it but i need help with it

[Xirema]

There are many maps without a time limit that meet their respective classifications of easy, medium, hard, etc.  without a time limit. Some of these maps do not allow the luxury of allowing you to build up a standoff position - you have to fight for space for every blaster, reactor or other unit you need to position.

I should have clarified: I don't think maps without time limits don't deserve their rating, I MEANT to mean pretty much exactly what you said. I should have followed up by saying that Time Limits are what I use to reach that point.

[Pyxis_GeeK]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread here but have a question. I am considering making a series of maps and having a story to go along with them. I came across this thread and it changed my perspective somewhat on a tactic that I had planned on using. In reading the post it seems that as long as you know about the time limit beforehand and know of the urgency you seem to take the time limit a little more in stride. However having an emitter suddenly blast out with an intensity of 1000 with no warning would make me angry to say the least. My plan was to have Odin City teleport to a less than perfect area but be forced to hurry up and get out before the creeper volcano (Caldera I believe it is called in the game??? Correct me if I am wrong.) The point being to get out and stop being a turtle which is currently my style of play unless forced to be a rabbit and get it over quick. I enjoy the game but don't want to make a series of maps just to not have them downloaded because one or two use this time tactic. I liked the idea of stacking emitters and using the time delay to make them flood increasingly more amounts of creeper out. I must admit this tactic never crossed my mind until now. I just have a desire to make a mini story line while waiting on CW2 to be finished and released.

Advice is appreciated.