==Design considerations and suggestions==

[UberWaffe]

Recently bought CW3 and really enjoyed it. Saw the videos for CW4 and it looks great.

I figured I would post some suggestions here, from my recent experience of CW3.
Some context:
Mediocre player probably. Turtle like play style.

CW3, What I experienced, and what I suggest:

The tipping point:
On all maps there is a tipping point. Being when you destroy creep as fast as it comes at you. I found that as long as you can do a quick land-grab and get some defenses down to reach that point, you can then slog it out to victory.

This isn't inherently bad, it actually is quite fun. But having some counters and curve balls thrown at you during the slog phase would be nice.
In later levels this is often achieved by means of scripting that accomplishes this.
I note that in CW4 waves appear to mix this up a bit, as the "rate it comes at you' varies when a wave hits.

What I suggest:
Expand on this a bit.
I would give the creeper a simple AI. Lore wise call it what you will.
The AI does not control the creep directly, instead it has a hidden currency that it can spend on actions.
The actions can be all sorts of things (some suggestions):

• Add directed wave momentum to creep.
• Condense some creep into a missile that fires at a key tower in your supply line
• Momentarily supercharge a creep tower
• Apply a permanent output boost to a creep tower
• Deform terrain
• Spawn creep 'lifeforms'
• Freeze one of its towers for a time, allowing it to build up charge
• etc.

Each action has a cost. The AI picks from the available actions and tries to attack the player. (It doesn't need to be super clever. Just not stupid.)
How much currency this AI starts with, how quickly it gains more, how long it takes to 'wake up' on a map, what actions it can pick from, etc. Can all be determined by the map.
But it basically allows curve balls and some randomness to be thrown at the player.

Want a map scale up over time?
Give the AI access to only permanent output actions, and a steady action point income.

Want an fortress / survival map?
Give the AI access to directed waves, lots of action points, and then spawn in creep from time to time.

Want a 'Oh heck no' moment?
Let the AI spam charge on a tower, then hit the resulting creep blob with directed waves.

Etc.


Creeper lacks malevolence:
Another reason for the above (but more story wise), creeper feels like an inevitable tide, but not very 'malevolent' since it doesn't do anything spontaneous.
I.e. it is like gravity. It will kill you if ignored, but it is predictable.

The above suggestion allows it to feel a bit more spontaneous and malevolent as well. Even if not 'intelligent'. The feeling of even a simple beastly intelligence would lend some degree of malevolence to it.


Possible difficulty levels?:
I'm not sure how well it will work, but an AI opponent as suggested above could allow for an easier way to implement difficulty levels on maps.
The map stays the same, but for higher difficulties the AI opponent gets more action points to spend, and gets them earlier.
(I.e. in the map, you specify for each difficulty level, what the AI opponent stats are.)
Time until activated. Starting point. Points income (Amount and period). Actions available.

So the map doesn't change, the creep just becomes more active (so to speak).



Things I would like to see:
Persistent upgrades:
I would have liked to see a way to earn persistent upgrades across the span of the campaign (alongside the unlocking of new buildings).
Something like a tech-tree, and maps / worlds that aren't directly along the main path allow you to gather special points. (Somewhat like the artifacts in CW3.)
These points can unlock things on the tech tree. (Would not replace the forge, which is upgrades for the map.)
Example:

• Relay connection range +2
• Mortars explode bigger when destroyed
• Command post spawns 1 AC per second.
• Double hitpoints for cannons.
• Etc.

The better upgrades would be deep in the tree, and would be expensive.

I would be happy if you could only post scores on a map if you had these upgrades disabled for that map. (A tickbox, that disables all persistent upgrades.)

[kordnish]

The tipping point:
On all maps there is a tipping point. Being when you destroy creep as fast as it comes at you. I found that as long as you can do a quick land-grab and get some defenses down to reach that point, you can then slog it out to victory.

This isn't inherently bad, it actually is quite fun. But having some counters and curve balls thrown at you during the slog phase would be nice.

I absolutely agree. I really enjoyed CW3, but in my opinion, the "slog phase" you describe is the one thing preventing CW3 from being one of my all time favorite games. I made a post recently addressing this same issue.

I think any idea that tries to fix this has potential.  +1

[UberWaffe]

I absolutely agree. I really enjoyed CW3, but in my opinion, the "slog phase" you describe is the one thing preventing CW3 from being one of my all time favorite games. I made a post recently addressing this same issue.

I think any idea that tries to fix this has potential.  +1

Yup, I had read your post.
The suggestion here is in essence trying to address the same thing. Though this suggestion is more game design wise (active, unpredictable-to-some-degree creep).

As for level design, there are interesting things that can be done there as well. I think your thread covered those rather well.

I just really like the idea of creep being a malevolent endless destructive fluid.

Oh, it threw a bunch of spores at you and you shot them all down using beamers?
How about it shuts down all of the spore towers to gain more action points, then uses the stored points to spawn extra creep waves and send them at your defenses?
Every so often it reactivates the spore towers and tries again. If spores actually hit, then it redoubles it efforts into flinging spores (spends its action points on more spores, not creep attacks).

Things like that would make the creeper feel significantly more alive and like what is described lore-wise. A thing that adapts and exploits weaknesses.


Possible expansion on the active controlled creep idea
One could even go so far as to let the creep AI use points (and use local creep) to build more structures.
Unlike creep spawners, these can be destroyed by normal turret fire.

For example:
The creep spends action points to direct the next spore attack at the top of an empty mountain that is near to your base.
Once creep spawns from the spores, it spends action points and condenses that creep into a rift.
It uses action points to create another right in a part of the map that has deep creep.
Creep then starts teleporting between the two rifts (essentially attempting to balance out the levels of creep).
You now have a flood of creep pouring down at your base. Everything dies.

You could have had beamers to shoot down the spores. (Good, negates the attack entirely.)
Or move a turret to the mountain top to shoot and destroy the rift. (Okay, some creep will get through while you respond.)
Or you can move your base out of the path of the new flood. (Bad, you lose ground.)

[J]

You might be interested in this article from RPS (which was probably already posted on these forums two years ago).

Ultimately, it's up to the map designer to make maps that don't have the slog phase, or at least keep it somewhat interesting until the end.