Game Design Suggestion

[kordnish]

In my opinion the average game of creeper world is anticlimactic and drawn out. I think adding an additional phase at the end of a standard map could keep each game more interesting without the stress of a timed map.

Right now the average game looks something like this:

Phase 1: Establish a foothold ---> Phase 2: Defend and expand ---> Phase 3: meet win conditions

The problem with this is that I usually feel totally safe after Phase 1, which usually only lasts a few minutes. Phase 2 and 3 often times feel like a chore because I know I'm not going to lose. Creeper World 3 definitely addressed this problem in a number of ways, most significantly with the final maps being time based. This kept tension through phases 2 and 3 and made the game more interesting, stressful, and difficult.

I would like to propose a change that would make every game interesting all the way through without necessarily adding more difficulty in the same way a timer does. What I propose would look something like this:

Phase 1: Establish a foothold ---> Phase 2: Defend and setup for phase 3 ---> Phase 3: Defend against/Tactically retreat from an ever more powerful uber creeper.

Phase 1 and 2 would be very similar to a standard game of CW3. However Phase 2 would no longer feel like a chore because safety would not be guaranteed at this point. Decisions made here will be important in Phase 3. Will I be able to hold the supply line through this valley? Are my defenses too spread out? What am I going to have to sacrifice in phase 3? Phase 2 ends when a certain condition is met. This condition could be collecting x amount of energy, after x amount of time, reaching a certain place in the map, or any number of other conditions. This is where phase 3 begins.

In Phase 3 the creeper becomes too powerful for any defenses to hold back. This could happen suddenly or ramp up over the course of a few minutes, but in any case the creeper has come to claim this world and there is nothing the player can do to prevent it. All the player can do is hold on to the important parts of the map and try to meet win conditions. Eventually if the player doesn't manage to win they will be left clinging to the last mountaintop, sitting in their last reservoir of anicreeper, or some other similarly dire situation.

Win conditions would have to be different from normal and they could possibly be tied to triggering phase three. For example Reaching an object triggers phase 3, powering the object wins the game.

This idea adds much more depth to strategy and level design. In CW3 a player would have too look at every bit of terrain and ask themselves two questions: Do I need to control this? How can I gain control of this? With my idea a player would have to ask the same questions but with two additional questions: Do I need to hold this or can I sacrifice it? How long could I hold this if I needed to? So basically every terrain feature would have to be considered by the player up to four times.

What I like most about this whole idea is that the end of the game is the most exciting part. This is also the main downside, it would make the game more punishing. A player could lose at the very end of an hour long game.

I could probably go on forever but I don't want this to get much longer than it already is :).
Anyways thanks for reading and I hope you see some merit in my idea.

tldr: make the creeper get scary at the end so the game stays interesting all the way through

[herobattle530]

As long as it's not another Farbor, I'm fine with it.
The "reach a certain place" objective might need a some sort of deterrent so you can't stall forever just building up your forces to an almost unbeatable force and then trigger phase 3.
Makes sense in the story (This is all speculation of course). From gameplay, it seems you can only nullify emitters, not destroy them. This might put it before Creeper world 3, where that game was all about kicking the Creeper's *** and winning. This seems to be that you can't beat the creeper, only stall it. Plus, there are the usual gimmicks within the levels to reduce the repetitiveness.

[Builder17]

Win conditions would have to be different from normal and they could possibly be tied to triggering phase three. For example Reaching an object triggers phase 3, powering the object wins the game.

Or surviving while before creeper covers all terrain?

What I like most about this whole idea is that the end of the game is the most exciting part. This is also the main downside, it would make the game more punishing. A player could lose at the very end of an hour long game.

Saving would help with that, but forgetting to save is too bad and it should have info what triggers phase 3.

As long as it's not another Farbor, I'm fine with it.

I agree!

The "reach a certain place" objective might need a some sort of deterrent so you can't stall forever just building up your forces to an almost unbeatable force and then trigger phase 3.

Getting good score isn't deterrent enough? Let turtlers turtle if they want it, ok? :)

[kordnish]

As long as it's not another Farbor, I'm fine with it.
The "reach a certain place" objective might need a some sort of deterrent so you can't stall forever just building up your forces to an almost unbeatable force and then trigger phase 3.

yeah the objectives I mentioned were just examples. The only thing I really wanted to suggest was a change in the feel of each level. IMO Specific features don't usually make very good suggestions, especially this early in development

[FluppyGuppy]

I'd like to begin by saying I thoroughly enjoy the CW series.
I like this idea very much. I often get burned out on this game because as you say, aside from 'Phase 1' the rest of the game starts to feel like a chore. This is especially true if I am trying to get a good time. Adding more challenging and more dynamic situations could help with that. They certainly don't have to be included in every mission, but the variety is there.

One of the main principles of CW3 is that for every collector/reactor you build, you then have more energy and (through fighting back the creeper) more space with which to build more collectors/reactors. This allows for exponential growth and eventually an easy win. Unless it seriously affects 'Phase 1', increased difficulty just makes it take longer and be even more boring.
The hard part is finding a way to add challenge to that without seemingly random and backwards negatives just for the sake of making it harder. To me, one of the best things about CW is that at all times the player is fully aware of the situation: what the Creeper will do, what the player can do, how the Creeper will be affected, and so on. The only thing in CW that differs from this to some extent is spores (and particles (and Sorrontis  >:()).

Your idea goes a good way to solving this. By effectively adding a 4th 'Phase' to the game it would make the long run more enjoyable as well as adding an extra level of consideration to each choice made in the other phases. It reminds me of the flash Creeper World game (Forgot which) where you could start Armageddon and be assaulted by a wall of infinite creeper from one side of the map. With objectives and incentives this would be quite fun. Players who survive past a certain point could get a reward of either score or resources/tech to carry over to the next level. There could also be a mode where the emitters themselves slowly ramp up over time either over time or to match the player.

CW4 is the best opportunity to implement not just features but also gameplay improvements and I hope we can make it the best it can be.

[Builder17]

Adding more challenging and more dynamic situations could help with boredom. They certainly don't have to be included in every mission, but the variety is there.

CRPL is pretty good, but allbody doesn't want to learn CRPL/4RPL/something else.
I hope these will be done without 4RPL if possible.

One of the main principles of CW3 is that for every collector/reactor you build, you then have more energy and (through fighting back the creeper) more space with which to build more collectors/reactors. This allows for exponential growth and eventually an easy win. Unless it seriously affects 'Phase 1', increased difficulty just makes it take longer and be even more boring.

Would it be evil if you lose your oldest collectors/reactors and have to rebuild these before you get to energy deficit and orerrun by creeper and spores? But to balance it threat would have to not be impossible to win without huge energy income.

The hard part is finding a way to add challenge to that without seemingly random and backwards negatives just for the sake of making it harder. To me, one of the best things about CW is that at all times the player is fully aware of the situation: what the Creeper will do, what the player can do, how the Creeper will be affected, and so on. The only thing in CW that differs from this to some extent is spores (and particles (and Sorrontis  >:()).

Even spores aren't that much threat with enough beams and ramping spores isn't only way to fix that.

Maybe something that moves in map and kills your units in predictable pattern? Not too much units, that would be bad.

Your idea goes a good way to solving this. By effectively adding a 4th 'Phase' to the game it would make the long run more enjoyable as well as adding an extra level of consideration to each choice made in the other phases. It reminds me of the flash Creeper World game (Forgot which) where you could start Armageddon and be assaulted by a wall of infinite creeper from one side of the map. With objectives and incentives this would be quite fun. Players who survive past a certain point could get a reward of either score or resources/tech to carry over to the next level. There could also be a mode where the emitters themselves slowly ramp up over time either over time or to match the player.

For players with low skill level resources/tech reward could become loop, not getting these will make every mission harder.

Score is fine, that doesn't matter for most ppl, I think. "Emitters that ramp over time?" Nooo, new farbor?  :'(

And ramping should have decay to make it slowly easier to win. Slogs and 2 hour fights aren't that fun IMHO.