Custom Map #835: Imperial Plot. By: Decagon

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This topic is for discussion of map #835: Imperial Plot


Author: Decagon
Size: 384x316

Desc:
The devious Imperialist Taiidani are once again up to no good. They have managed to smuggle a taskforce into Redacted Space and have begun experimenting upon the Particulate in the hopes of turning it into a new weapon. Having discovered the location of one of their bases, the HDF send a Kiith Somtaaw fleet to deal with the Imperials. This map is not associated with the Crystallid campaign.

[ChaosMaster130]

Oh hey a Homeworld inspired map, cool  8)

Spoiler

Well the Mothership was cool, you forgot to add a mission fail on loss flag to it which means you can warp it out and re-spawn it instantly fully repaired/charged

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Pretty cool map otherwise.

[Keeper Decagon]

Oh hey a Homeworld inspired map, cool  8)

Spoiler

Well the Mothership was cool, you forgot to add a mission fail on loss flag to it which means you can warp it out and re-spawn it instantly fully repaired/charged

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Pretty cool map otherwise.

Yes, that's kind of intended. You see, the enemy Carriers have the tendency to launch their fighters and send them right over the top of the Faal-Corum's HQ module, wiping it out even with its shields. Therefore, I trust the player does not abuse this fact. If they do, well... so be it.

Besides, it's completely possible to keep the Faal-Corum not only fully repaired but also full of energy without needing to re-warp it, especially since it has a million and one reactors.

[GoodMorning]

Well, I'm not entirely sure about how this is supposed to be played at the end. Between missiles and fighters, the two opposing stations prevent the underlying plasma from being cleared (not enough particle beams) for ramming. They have independent energy as well. Eventually I concluded that even a full fleet worth of firepower wasn't going to keep out the rams, let alone destroy both stations (I could get the lower one, but the upper one covered it while it rebuilt - and I had just thrown two large ships at it (smaller rams are futile, even these had trouble), so I couldn't move in for the kill).

Eventually (after the game clock reached 1h or so, and progressively riskier tactics), my mothership was destroyed by a fighter parking over the HQ module. At that point, I gave up on subtlety and tactics, and used the impressive-regeneration trick to ram (at least it wasn't bombing). This was sufficiently cathartic that I won't be playing the map again.

How is the end supposed to go? I do try to play your maps properly, but this one didn't seem to have a good solution. My best guess is somehow getting the mothership close enough for the fighters to hit the exposed CMs.

[Keeper Decagon]

Well, I'm not entirely sure about how this is supposed to be played at the end. Between missiles and fighters, the two opposing stations prevent the underlying plasma from being cleared (not enough particle beams) for ramming. They have independent energy as well. Eventually I concluded that even a full fleet worth of firepower wasn't going to keep out the rams, let alone destroy both stations (I could get the lower one, but the upper one covered it while it rebuilt - and I had just thrown two large ships at it (smaller rams are futile, even these had trouble), so I couldn't move in for the kill).

Eventually (after the game clock reached 1h or so, and progressively riskier tactics), my mothership was destroyed by a fighter parking over the HQ module. At that point, I gave up on subtlety and tactics, and used the impressive-regeneration trick to ram (at least it wasn't bombing). This was sufficiently cathartic that I won't be playing the map again.

How is the end supposed to go? I do try to play your maps properly, but this one didn't seem to have a good solution. My best guess is somehow getting the mothership close enough for the fighters to hit the exposed CMs.

The only source of missiles are the enemy Missile Destroyers; one spawns directly behind the Base and another in that metal land to the left of it. Attacking from the left, you should be able to wipe out at least one of the Missile Destroyer spawners. Since its Destroyer is on a set patrol path, you should be able to ambush and destroy it with ease.

The remaining Missile Destroyer is set to approach your fleet, and as such you have to lure it out of the plasma and ram it in the face with a Ramming Frigate, usually that results in an instant kill. Whilst it's down, you have to use the Deacons to push forward and eliminate as much plasma as you can before the Destroyer rebuilds. Since the particle beams also wipe out Fighters damn fast, you should be able to keep the Carrier's complement at bay long enough to push into it. Once you're close enough, you can slip in a Recon or Ramming Frigate to annihilate the Carrier.

How did you arrange you fleet, btw? Because the Faal-Corum is so powerful and durable with Deacons by its side, and the rest of the fleet backing it up, you must push in with everything you have at the same time. The sheer number of particle beams shared between the Faal-Corum and the Deacons will eliminate anything the Carrier throws at you, I've found, and the Missile Destroyer is easy enough to lure out of the plasma and ambush. Also don't underestimate how good a bunched-up blob of ACVs is either. I found they're great at nailing the supportive Assault Frigate formation below the Carrier too.

EDIT: Also, which ships did you Amp? I made sure both my Deacons and the Faal-Corum were Amped.

[GoodMorning]

I had the impression that the fixed station over the Progenitor was carrying missiles (and once one sees them in the right region, why bother to look at every module on the ship?), and the sheer number of respawning opposing ships meant tracking what did what was impractical. Having made this assumption, I didn't think that rushing all of the particle beams in was going to help - one missile and they're useless for the plasma clearance I needed, and the fighters tended to kill/disable something critical because they all launch at once and overwhelm the particle beams.

I was able to inch in and destroy two of the support-spawners, but the carrier-without-particle-beams problem seemed insurmountable. Attacking from below might have been better, but I was content to leave the MK7-ship alone and attack from the well-supplied left. This meant that the missile frigates were covered during retreat - the only option being a quick kill by ramming.

I generally leave most gems in techs - here, only the mothership was amped. Range does little when targeting something useless. ACVs were more helpful than most.

Until I lost patience, the mothership was placed as a form of wall, just outside fighter range. Cannon-ships generally behind it, but the lesser vessels flitted about regularly. Many a ship rammed into my wall and died only there.

The impression I get is that, save for your somehow bypassing particle beam targeting on the four missile launchers on the initially-existing station, your strategy mirrors some of my attempts - each of which failed.

[Oiskapunk]

Yey, I cheesed your map. The respawn gave me the possibility to do that. I destroyed my flagship 5 times to reach the mission goal in under 5 minutes. It took me 3 or 4  hours to figure out the perfect respawn spots and the right movements. I think i loaded 100 or more save stats. Better you deactivate the respawn option to prevent players from sneaking.   :P

[GoodMorning]

It depends upon what you think the point of the map is. I take it to be the story and gameplay for Decagon's maps.

Edit: Also, welcome to the forum.

[Oiskapunk]

You'r right. But sometimes i try to test a different way. The time table is sometimes a motivation to me.

My first run on this map was a normal playtrough. It took me 57 minutes. It was unbelievable hard, especially the first minutes (even frustrating with one enormous big ship that don't fit properly between the land masses, a lot of weak enormous little ships that die due to a tiny scratch and opponent ships that will not collapse).

[Keeper Decagon]

You'r right. But sometimes i try to test a different way. The time table is sometimes a motivation to me.

But surely, playing a map in a way that was not only unintended but also technically breaks the map's design just to get a very fast time is nowhere near as satisfying as playing a map legitimately and getting as fast a time as possible? Or am I completely wrong on this?

My map design is a constant tug-of-war between preventing cheese strategies and actually making a cool map that is not frustrating to play for the average player. More often than not, I choose the latter, but if people insist on breaking the map I spent a lot of time and effort on making, I might just veer to the former, and I know for a fact that will make the map not only not as fun to play, but also not as fun to create in the first place.

You know what, just play how you want, but if you cheesed it, I don't want to hear it. Be proud in the knowledge your fast time means nothing.

/end rant

*Deep breath*

I'm sorry. Perhaps I get a little too annoyed about this sort of thing. :/

[Spaartan]

I feel bad people cheese your maps Dec, I love your maps and the story attached to them, please don't stop your way of making maps, I am sad that you had to make a rant. Also, I somehow beat your maps with I guess medium difficulty, just in the sweet spot. I hate maps that take no effort, but also those that require extreme concentration while doing it and are almost impossible. I like your maps, sometimes they are a bit too hard, but more than often you hit the mark between fun and challenging. I could never make a map as good as yours.

[Oiskapunk]

At first, i want to say thank you and all the other map makers for putting so much time into creating awesome maps and ships. Without you this game would never be half as good as it is right now. I honour this creativity.

There have to be different time lists (like it is already with the default fleet and the sandbox fleet) for the intended way of the playthrough and for the unintended way. (I think thats not possible by the way.)

And no, you are not wrong on your opinion. To me it just was satisfying to see what i am able to do at some maps (without cheating or hacking) with what the creator gives to me. You gave me a good time with your map and satisfaction for reaching a top time. Is a good feeling for the player while playing your maps not the goal for a map maker? I think it is, and you made me this present.

Don't be sad. Your map brought me joy. Nevermind if I played it in a different way.

Keep up the good work! You all map makers are awesome!

(If you are interested in, i can show you my way of breaking your map concept to prevent further cheese. (Or you can just deactivate the respawning option for the headquater ship, so players like me can't flip things over.))

[GoodMorning]

[...] nowhere near as satisfying as playing a map legitimately [...] Or am I completely wrong on this? [...]

I agree with you in general. I play the intended way unless and until I stop having fun. I see that getting the best possible (legitimate!) score has a certain attraction, but I'm not all that interested. However, definitions vary - your unintended is someone else's back-door, and what might seem to be cheating to one is merely logical strategy to others. Do you object when someone would pick off an Inhibitor or Progenitor early by careful tactics?

So: story and lore for some, Inhibitor-rushes for others. Your maps are invariably interesting. I feel that there's the intended experience, and down-to-the-wire timeseeking. For my part, please continue; I very much enjoy the experiences you create.

[FOXX]

+1 Agree.
All sorts of different people -> Cheesers will be Cheesers ;)
When played like that i see it as a Different Tactic and move on.
Keep doing what you do Decagon. I will give this one a go coming week.
Seeing the Map Image the first Part is Straight Forward :)

[Spaartan]

Cheesers will be Cheesers ;)

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned

Spoiler

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