Custom Map #819: The Unfallen One. By: JoaoPistori

[AutoPost]

This topic is for discussion of map #819: The Unfallen One


Author: JoaoPistori
Size: 500x500

Desc:
#PRPL - Custom Modules Ships! Sorry for the very long waiting time. I can't edit PF after january. Added 4 new modules with 3 new ships since my last map. Changes and news since the last map on forums. Expert-only map. The beginning may have a bit of lag because some enemy ships will start building all at once. Have an epic battle during your play :D

[JoaoPistori]

Instead of adding descriptions in game dialogs, I decided to put everything here so you can read what you need at any time.

===== // SHIPS AND GLOBAL CHANGES INFO // =====

- Enemy ships now won't fire if they don't have enough energy;
- Increased the building cost of *all* custom modules.

Note: The ships info is in alphabetical order
Note2: I didn't put info about the six super titan ships. I don't want to spoil them.

Big Lathe
No custom modules. Has 4 lathes.

CannonShip
No custom modules. Has a lot of cannons.

Death Ray 3

Spoiler

Changes: Decreased chain strike sniper's fire rate.
Has snipers that target the particle with highest health in range and deal chain strike along them, damaging 6 particles in one shot.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, -energy per shot.

[close]

Demolisher

Spoiler

Changes: Increased projectile strength, range with and without gem was changed a bit.
Has big rocket launchers that target enemy ship's CM and emitters. Also has a limited angle of aiming.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, -energy per shot, -energy to reload.

[close]

DOOMlisher (NEW FROM THIS MAP; ENEMY-ONLY)

Spoiler

Similar to the Demolisher, but it has 6 rocket modules instead of just 2.

[close]

Hammer Mk2
No custom modules. It's a Hammer with a shield module.

HellFire.S (NEW FROM THIS MAP)

Spoiler

"Hell Fire Ship"
Has 2 hell fire launchers. Those launchers target nearest enemy ship's hull, CM, the nearest emergent or emitters.
How they fire and what they fire I want you to take a look. :D
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, -energy per shot.

[close]

Hell Swarm (NEW FROM THIS MAP)

Spoiler

"Hell Fire Swarm"
Has 6 of the previous hell fire launcher mentioned.

[close]

Howitzer

Spoiler

Changes: Increased damage against emergent (from 50 to 75), range without amp gem -4.
A big cannon that deals area damage. Target the nearest enemy ship's hull, emergent or the deepest concentration of particles in range.
Also deals knockback against particles and break all their bonds.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, +faster barrel rotation, -energy per shot.

[close]

Hydra
No custom modules. Has a lot of missile launcher. CannonShip's cousin. :D

Laser Gun

Spoiler

Changes: Decreased fire rate.
Has chain strike snipers like the snipers from death ray 3, but targets the nearest particle and damage 4 particles instead of 6.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, -energy per shot.

[close]

Neg.Charger (NEW FROM THIS MAP)

Spoiler

This one I want you to take a look. :D
Read in-game dialog when you pick it.
Amp gem: +range, +"damage" per shot.

[close]

OverCharger

Spoiler

No changes.
Attacks enemy's stunners. Upon destroying them, creates a friendly stunner.
Amp gem: +range, +dmg per shot, -energy per shot.

[close]

Reactor

Spoiler

No changes.
Produces energy (much more than the common green reactors).
Amp gem: 2x energy per tic.

[close]

Siege Ship

Spoiler

Changes: Increased range and projectile's strength. Amp gem now increases projectile's health.
Fires a big energy ball against enemy ships (like the Demolisher, it targets ship's CM, not the hull) and emitters.
This ships is *almost* a compacted titan ship.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, +projectile strength, -energy per shot, -energy to reload.

[close]

Tesla Ship

Spoiler

Changes: Increased damage against emergent, range without amp gem -4.
Has a lightning that deals chain strike along the particulate and ship's hull. It's like the Laser Gun's snipers and the Death Ray's sniper together, but instead of targeting only particles, also targets the nearest emergent/ship's hull.
Also doesn't need to rotate a barrel, making the targeting system very optimized.
Amp gem: +range, +fire rate, -energy per shot.

[close]

There are 6 titan ships not listed here that are super overpower and you really need them in order to win.
Don't forget to eliminate all the enemy structures and capture all the amp gems (require all item collection).

Your opening will have deep influence during your ending :D
Also, don't look at my 1+ hour score. It can be finished before 40 minutes plus the time to destroy remaining shielded structures.

There's a lot of possible strategies but you really need to plan your strategy :D

I hope you like playing it :D

[JoaoPistori]

The scripts are available on:

http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=21624.15

Warning: They contain a lot of spoils. :P

[planetfall]

How, precisely, does one survive the missile ships that arrive at approx. 14 minutes?

[yum-forum]

WOW!
Now rates "1" x 6 times, like anti-records!  :(
I was very sad with 2-3, maximum 4 x "1" rates...  :-\
I am not expert, but possibly I will try it!  :)

[GoodMorning]

I've started this now...

Script bugs spotted are enclosed:

Spoiler

One custom module on the Hellfire stopped tracking the ship and remained visible when the ship was damaged. Tracking resumed when the underlying hull was rebuilt, when the module commenced the build state. Probably forgot code to remove the image on "module destruction".

The "Laser Gun" still fires when paused, consistently, in this map/playthrough. So the player can boost the damage rate to the ship resupply rate, if they are willing to sit paused. Noticed by accident, but it could easily be deemed intentional - personally, I like it.

[close]

In this spoiler, I'll write as I play. I'm about 12:00 in now.

Spoiler

13:00 Lathecraft rammed...

14:00 ships all but wiped me - Emergent stockpile and "If I'm going, you're coming with me!" ramming with most of the fleet. HQ and Overcharger survived. Amps still on the battlefield.

15:00 that ship is nasty. Rammed with a lathecraft before it got too close. Is it a leech or just waste, I wonder?

15:15 and the particles form below are becoming visible - perhaps that assault was meant to be complete by now.

15:40 and the lathe-behemoths return - Hammer, missile and cannons are ready to ram.

16:00 and the lathe are down, but the rocketeers are coming. Time to practice flanking.

17:00 and the rocketeers are down, with that innocuous-seeming one incoming. What do I have left with small reserves and ramming ability... (Also, the rule I'm using is: If it's custom, it's amped.)

17:41 and I'd expected the drainer to attack by now.

18:00 and the lathes are returning, still no sign of the other. Something big is building in the lower-right. Still low-power from the rocketeers, but the Reactor-barge has finally rebuilt a custom module, though the hull is still under construction... Odd, a lathe-craft randomly self-destructed, as far as I can see. Possibly a (very) stray fighter shot.

18:30 and the lathes are down but the rocketeers are returning. I'm starting to learn how to deal with them... retreat to the top, find which fast craft are not being targeted, circle around, and ram the CMs.

19:00 and so much for that plan - the rocket trails killed the rammer before it got close. Then it got the Overchargar it was after. Lesson learned: Use a tougher ship or get it before it comes so close. Preferably, don't get wiped by the first wave, and then there will be more resources to work with and less opposition.

[close]

Time to take a save and leave for the moment. Having a great time, but it requires great concentration.

planetfall:

Spoiler

That module only fires in a limited arc, and the back of the ship seems underprotected for a ship which the AI will consider to be a ram. Could this be intentional?

[close]

[JoaoPistori]

Seeing the (very very very very very very) low ratings and few posts here, I have to give some hints :P

Actually I'll give some questions that might help:

Spoiler

How did you deal against the shielded 100-strength mire spawners? You'll need all the ships around your perimeter to assault other areas.
Did you assault the left-bottom before emitters started spawning particles?
The laser gun ship, the death ray ship and the tesla ship are excellent particle killers and the enemy 6-rocket ship fires rockets that are guided by a particle under them. The howitzer with amp gem has a good range and can make an enemy ship to retreat with a single shot. Have you tried protecting your ships with them?

[close]

I really didn't note the hellfire module bug you mentioned. Thanks for spotting it.
Edit: I've uploaded the corrected script with the missing line {self "main" 255 255 255 0 SetImageColor} at my post at custom modules thread

[GoodMorning]

I prefer to fail without hints until I have exhausted all nearby options, and I haven't scratched the surface yet.

Please put the end of that post in a spoiler tag (edit: thanks) - I didn't realise what I was reading until it was too late...

Spoiler

So far, I had written off those spawner-islands as "I'll probably get a custom module to deal with that". Now that I know I'm supposed to get them before leaving my quadrant, it's a sub-second leap to try containment until I can make them latheable. ... I would have liked to figure that out on my own.

Also, now I know which section I'm supposed to assault next. :( Admittedly, I would likely have quickly realised I was coming second arguing with MK7s, but I like to find out myself.

Now I have some experience of the map, I have some hope of attacking (with a restart) before the Emitters begin - though if you hadn't mentioned that it was intended to be, it would have been another restart for me.

[close]

Your maps are much more ... "intense" might be the word ... than most of the Exchange, so expect a low rating.

On this type of map, restarts are no bad thing, and every play is far quicker and easier due to learning, giving more time, ships and power for each later stage. Many people dislike restarting, though, especially if they have to cope with lag.

I'll avoid reading too much in this thread, then, until I need help; rather than sharing too much of my experience as I go - which I thought might be helpful to you.

Summary:
I'm having a great time with this one, though I shouldn't have read that last post of yours.



Edit:
I've now got a save of a fairly good first quarter. I think I'll be playing a "save-when-good, play 'til stalled, reload save" game. The Emitters at the bottom came on after the first failed attack on a lower-left MK7 station - and I've so far stalemated there, trying different tricks to get rid of the custom-armed capital ship. I've survived some titans, and those lathe barges aren't as much of a threat as you'd think, if you keep an eye on them - and occasionally rebuild a mine. It's probably time to load a save, so that I can use correct strategy in the lower-left assault. I was missing a key ship pickup for that when I first tried :).

Those rocket-barges are easily resisted now. Note to self: always bring all available ships to a new fight.

The OWP bug has moved, now it's the front half of the DeathRay3.

I'm not asking help, just leaving notes.

[svartmes]

I've been waiting for another one of these! Thank you for these epics! :)

I think I encountered a bug unless it was some intentional hidden feature but it seemed a bit weird?

Spoiler

I had some of my fleet including one "OverCharge" near the the bottom-left corner and it targeted...something (invisible) at the corner edge of the map and that spot in turn began shooting blue stunner projectiles in a constant never-ending flow. This stunlocked most of the enemy ships and ofcourse made the rest of the map easier :/

[close]

[JoaoPistori]

I've been waiting for another one of these! Thank you for these epics! :)

I think I encountered a bug unless it was some intentional hidden feature but it seemed a bit weird?

Spoiler

I had some of my fleet including one "OverCharge" near the the bottom-left corner and it targeted...something (invisible) at the corner edge of the map and that spot in turn began shooting blue stunner projectiles in a constant never-ending flow. This stunlocked most of the enemy ships and ofcourse made the rest of the map easier :/

[close]

Thank you for liking those epic hard maps!
About the bug:

Spoiler

That wasn't intentional :P
I checked here and it happened after some tries. Probably when a targeted stunner in range dies and the killer isn't that module, target check might return -1 and it returns coords 0,0 as a result of enemy coords checking. If the overcharger module keeps in range of this coords (0,0) it will keep firing against this coords where it thinks there's a "target" (which is actually not a target, but a function anomaly with -1 as a return value). Thank you for spotting it.

[close]

[svartmes]

Right. So just to be clear and fair to others playing this map, my current time 44:34 was submitted using this exploit.
However, now that I know the map I do believe I would be able to get an even better time, even without it. I'll try to replay it without triggering the bug :)

[GoodMorning]

I think I now need to replay from the start, to get some more spare time for the later stages. I'll do that for my next attempt.

The intended timing seems to be "if you haven't taken any given section before the particles start, you're going to have a very hard time". Given that I'm fighting off two "immortal" ships in the third area, while the larger second-area ships build...

Now, this next part might not be as objective as it should be, given that I've just played until I failed and had my HQ and custom-module-bearer ships killed within a minute of each other. It is therefore spoilered, though it may prove useful to read.

TL, DR: Glass cannons are irritating

I've noticed atrend for any ship which is not repositioned at least once every thirty seconds to explode without warning - between stray MK7 shots, those middle-of-map cannons (exactly where the Emergent congregate, preventing Omni attacks except in the middle of other assaults) and many where I do not see the cause... This becomes a significant issue as soon as the first-area blue particles start causing firing of one gun after another. Containing these with Emitter control might work... But MK7s still hit a lot of near-exposed bridges or critical custom modules, which are already operating at extreme range, so there's not a lot to be done for "keep it out of harms way". Specifically, the Howitzer, Tesla, Overcharger and Siege are prone to spontaneous "critical existence failure"s when waved in the direction of an MK7, or (if repositioned constantly) to having only the key custom modules they carry be destroyed. There is no useful reply to this - to plop a vanilla ship in the way, and try to kill the ship with the surviving custom modules is the stop-gap. The bore useful ships are invariably un- or lightly-armoured. The Siege I understand this for, the others, I have an urge to redesign with double-thick front and bridge armour and extra engines. I think I would prefer a brick-like ship, with the front of the Hammer and the engines of the Hydra.

[close]

For these largest ships, have you considered a script to assist bridge-building? As it is, losing a big one is grounds for loading a save.

So far, this is the third (fourth) time I have returned to this one, and each time, I seem to get about a half-quadrant further before I fall too far behind. I suspect that I will be able to limp through the end once I can defeat the third area in a timely fashion.

That is, again, enough for now. I shall return when I have more to say that might prove useful, or just manage to progress further. (Hopefully this thread becomes something of a breadcrumb trail that can lead people to at least a slow completion).

[svartmes]

Second try using no exploits; 30:56

Spoiler

I actually did'nt find this one too difficult, once you realise it's mostly a question of time rushing to isolate the emitters and getting the good ships, there isnt much threats. Getting the 100 energymine right at the beginning gave me the advantage and I was able to get most of my fleet up before the enemies. In this run I had eliminated all threats at around 22:00 and then I had to spend 10 minutes just waiting for the cooldowns for the blackhole ship to enable lathing to mop up, which was not much fun :/

[close]

The neg charger is a great idea but the range was maybe a bit overpowered imo. Still a great map in the series! I felt that most of the small annoyances and bugs with the custom ships in the previous maps where eliminated and there was a good mix of useful ships. I do hope you make more! :)

[GoodMorning]

I'm on track to finish before eternity now :). I've wasted time after pacifying the third area, so I'll be moving back a save or two when I return, as some of the lower-right Emitters have activated. However, I have the final titan pickup being lathed (though it may not finish building before the map is complete).

Spoiler

I hadn't realised that the 100-mine was unprotected, so thanks, svartmes. Don't ask me why I don't consider that a spoiler - maybe because it's a matter of missing it (or not) in the initial map inspection.

[close]

The only remaining challenge is to remember how to fight Siege ships... I should recall from last time, but I think I just ground them down.

Once again, thank you. Setting the initial flip-Emitters to "collect" worked well to reduce "random" ship loss from MK7s and cannons, and managing an Omni assault on the central artillery cut down on almost all of the fatalities. I still lost a few to MK7s targeting rockets, but that's a matter of strategy, not random death.

Hopefully, the next time I return to this thread, I will have finished the map.

Suggestion:
Targeting options for the custom modules - similar to the off-map floating checkboxes that planetfall used in CW3. Sometimes, I want the particle-based projectiles to attack mire spawners and Emitters as fast as possible, at other times this is useless (disabled Emitter) or even dangerous (stray particles attracting an MK7 shot).


Edit: I was too optimistic. I'm getting the "almost, allllmossst..." feeling now.

Still working on taking the last area fast enough. I think I'm leaving the bulk of the fleet in the second area for too long, rather than leaving the lathes and Omnis behind (with perhaps one vanilla-ship guard) to clean up while the next assault begins. I also feel as if I'm bungling the third area - by the particle-timing measure I'm behind where I should be, and the fourth-area Emitters start while I'm tiptoeing around the MK7 stations that are near the middle.

It's interesting to watch the evolution of my save-pile. Mostly, each successive save is a more advanced version of the previous, but there are occasional jumps where I reverted to a much older state, and took a more efficient path.

Spoiler

I'm also (I think) being too cautious of the Siege projectiles. I've done enough for now, though. I finally remembered to take the Purifier early, and I got it charged - then, as it advanced, it lost a Totem to ... Struc, perhaps? ...and it was killed, fully charged and unable to fire. I'm yet to see the effects, but I'm hoping for Emitter conversion (or similar) - otherwise those last two cannons will be a pain. Given the firing cost, at two-and-a-half times that of the already-powerful Black Hole, it will hopefully be spectacular.

I will need to save before firing, lest I miss the most effective spot, or the range, or some such.

Also in my mental notes: Manage the Omnis better, they should never be idle. Take the middle only after the Purifier is captured, but before the Mini-Thor (which will not be built until there are particles all over the map). It's counterproductive for non-energy-tank ships to wait on energy from the lower-right mine, as they empty completely and sit empty for some time before the packets arrive. Only the Immortal, Tesla Bus and Purifier have so far built in time for use.

I'm trying to work out whether to advance down a side, avoiding MK7s but taking more Siege fire; or down the diagonal, taking the MK7s out first. Down a side was stopped by one of those powerful cannons, which tore large portions of the fleet apart, while the diagonal has been difficult to advance along.

I'm almost certainly underusing the Demolishers, Hellfire, Hell Swarm, Immortal and Howitzer, I think - assuming that their shorter range is going to be fatal. Even if it is, they're more use if they do something rather than nothing. With that being said, they're hard to get in range of the charged MK7 stations - the mere typing of which word ("charged") tells me what I should have realised I was doing wrong.

[close]

After I finish this map, I will try a custom module of my own: An "engineer", able to build ship CMs fast, and to funnel more energy into ships than they currently request, possibly by means of an Omni-based "beacon" (probably an upgrade for the Omni in question, automatically constructed and using the Omni's internal energy reserve).

You can tell from this thread that I'm not a particularly good player, and that this map is causing me to extend my skills significantly. With luck, I will soon enough have the time to sit down and defeat this map once and for all. The work that goes into this is clear, and the fact that it still holds my interest says a significant amount (admittedly, it's currently the only map on the Exchange I haven't finished).

I begin to wonder how you contained the endgame long enough to get 1:11, although I suppose the 100-spawners from the start might be relevant to that.

[GoodMorning]

AHAHAHAAAA!!!! (Multiple exclamation marks, a sure sign of a diseased mind)

I've steamrolled the last quadrant now, having arrived a full 2min earlier by replaying from another save. Somehow, I'm in the same scoring-minute as svartmes.

The Purifier fired all of three times. The BH reload was the limiting factor on the end - for once a Progenitor (shielded) would have been a worthy addition.

Oh, that's satisfying. Thank you again for the map. Now to start on that module.