A way for the player to know what each custom ship has

[stdout]

It's an occasional complaint among players that when loading up a map from a player who added custom ships, they don't know what each ship has and does until after it has been built. There's a fun element to that when you get the surprise of what is on each ship, but most times it'd be better to know ahead of time what each ship is capable of.

I propose that you make it so that when in game the player mouses over a ship in the build menu on the left, that a little window appears that describes what components are on that ship. It could be a simple list that looks like:

4 lasers
4 cannons
2 lathes
1 shield

That would be super convenient for the player to help them decide which order they should build out their fleet.

[12345ieee]

You can select them to build and you'll see the colored range circles.

Assuming you memorized the weapon's colors you can tell fairly well what a ship has.

[Builder17]

Virgil said about popup image of ship or something.  :-\

[knucracker]

I'm actually starting work on this right now.  I'm debating the usefulness of showing a ship image vs a list of modules as you indicated.  A simple and sorted list of modules and counts has some advantages over an image actually. And that same display (in either case) could also show estimates of build time and energy use.

I also plan to fold a bit more information into the button display.  For instance, when the command module is building (the bridge), a % indicator on the button for that phase of the build would be nice. A % indicator for hull completion status (when building/rebuilding) would also potentially be nice.

[stdout]

All of that sounds fantastic, Virgil.

[GoodMorning]

For the CM percentage, could I ask for absolute numbers next to it? This is useful for leviathans which will stay at 30% for a ...long... time.

[knucracker]

It's not too bad... for a ship that takes 20 minutes to build the CM that's 'only' 12 seconds for each integer percent shown.  Trying it out, I found myself occasionally glancing at the build panel and noting the % complete of the really large ships.  The change was usually several percent or more, and I was particularly focused on it because it was what I was playing the mission for.  In an actual mission, I doubt I would look that often.

That said, I can probably add absolute numbers in the popup window I am making that shows ship loadout and costs.  At the bottom of that I could show how much total energy it takes to build the CM.  So it would show something like 250/500, for instance, and go up by 1 every packet that comes in.  Similar for hull counts.

[planetfall]

Similar for hull counts.

I worry a little that newbie players might think that's an HP counter, then get confused when a ship explodes at half "health."

[GoodMorning]

I'm inclined to agree. The current colour/icon system works well.

[stdout]

I love the new info window you made. It's perfect for ships in the build menu. It can be a little distracting for ships that are already built and in play.

I wonder if a solution is to put that information into the box on the bottom of the screen instead of in a popup box?

[knucracker]

I will probably change the default to not show the info box upon mouse over of  a ship.  Right now you can turn it off in the graphics menu.  I added an option there since I knew some people would find it distracting.  It seems to have a lot to do with screen real estate.  When I play in a 1024x720 window it is distracting one ship mouse over.  When I play at 2560x1440 it is fine and I like it.  Of course some people don't like things that appear and disappear on the edge of their vision, so for those folks it might always be off.

I could maybe show the info over the bottom panel.  But that would also be a visual alteration in peripheral vision so I don't know if that would help folks that don't like that.  My first guess was that people would like it for mouse over on the build bar, and that it would be 50/50 split for mouse over ships.  So I added the option to turn it off for mouse over ships, but defaulted it to 'on' for the beta build to get people to see it.

[stdout]

A few thoughts:

A solution may be to simply include the informational box only when they mouseover the ship in the build menu, and not show it when you mouse over an already built ship. It seems like that's the time when it's most useful, anyway. Once the ship is built, it's easy to see what components it has onboard. Additionally, you could be expecting information to popup when you're in the build menu, but maybe not so much when you are working with live ships.

If you were willing, you could split this out into two options:

1) Show ship info over build menu
2) Show ship info over ship

Then default #2 to off and #1 to on.

[Stickman]

I'm debating the usefulness of showing a ship image vs a list of modules as you indicated.  A simple and sorted list of modules and counts has some advantages over an image actually. And that same display (in either case) could also show estimates of build time and energy use.

I would like to apologize beforehand, English is not my first language.

I would like to disagree with a list approach. It's good for campaign ships, which are compact and well-rounded. But we need this feature for custom ships in exchange maps, which can be bigger and more unbalanced. A ship is not just a bundle of modules, it's hull shape, module and armor placement are important too.

Just allow me to show an example of two "hammer" ships:

Spoiler

Zillyhoo is accidental, I swear.

[close]

Same module composition, same armor and hull, these two would look identical on ship list, item count list, etc. But if I had energy to build one ship to park in front of emitter to shield lathes, I would take the left one.

The problem grows bigger with ship size and ship-to-ship combat.

10 laser modules on a tiny ship(lathe-size) just make this ship a laser blob, putting them on Varro is different - you can put them all around to create some kind of point defense against stray particles or drop them into one place to create one heavily defended spot against particles and missiles, and that will change the way you use and position your ship.

In a ship-to-ship combat (very popular on exchange maps) your armor plays a big role -  it's hard to deflect MK7 shot or wolf's salvo, so your ships will get damaged, and some modules would be destroyed, and that will change the effectiveness of your ship, so you have to choose ships with acceptable armor or module composition for frontlines. Ship with MK7 behind one layer of armor would quickly lose it to enemy fire and will be useless, so it should be kept behind your other ships. Ship with four layers of armor would be useful on frontlines as anti-ship ship and would actually be useful as a decoy to protect your other, more fragile ships. This information can be easily obtained with a quick glance at ship image and much harder to derive from item list and range circles.

Another example:

Spoiler

[close]

Once again - same modules, armor and size. You can differentiate them by looking at range rings, of course. Left ship is more useful as a part of the fleet, on frontlines - it's front-heavy on lasers against particles, it would probably tank an MK7 shot or two from the front, but it's more vulnerable from sides and rear, that should be guarded by other ships of the fleet. Right one is better as a lone ship, for example, guarding a remote energy mine from medium particulate treat - it's defenses are spread around, but a MK7 shot from the front would probably take out shield generator, making this ship very vulnerable to further damage.

Few good examples can be found in Sorrontis' fleet - ships with unbalanced, unsymmetrical design that should be used with a design in mind and a simple list of modules does not reflect it's weaknesses.

I would also like to agree with stdout everything he said about mouseovering a building ship. If it would have image preview - please let us have a delay before image popup as an option.

Last one piece of mind - THIS GAME IS ABSOLUTELY GREAT ON VISUALLY SHOWING IT'S GAME MECHANICS, DON'T BURY IT IN LISTS
At least don't bury it too much and allow people who love lists have them.
Seriously, "show, don't tell" is absolutely amazing here. So much information gets to the player via visuals. Take something simple, like moving a ship - game will show you how exactly will your ship be positioned, will show you what would be in range of it's weapons, shows via a faint lines what energy sources can support it. Your ship doesn't perform worse because it's HP bar is at 50%, it's because particles ate a hole in ship and two of it's cannons are missing. Every energy packet is shown, allowing player to intuitively see how much energy is taken - difference between occasional packet and steady green stream is obvious. Stunner balls grow smaller when you attack them. You can literally see when missiles are reloaded and tanks are full. Please keep this trend.

[stdout]

Great points above. You've converted me to your line of thinking. Showing the ship itself (maybe with a list of modules below?) in a window next to the build menu sure would be great.

[Sorrontis]

[...]
Few good examples can be found in Sorrontis' fleet - ships with unbalanced, unsymmetrical design that should be used with a design in mind and a simple list of modules does not reflect it's weaknesses.
[...]

Did somebody call good old Sorrontis? I heard my name. :D

But I love Stickman's analysis of the situation.