Rock Burner-Rock Birther?

[4xC]

Considering what looks like a growing debate across the blog and forum over whether or not there should be a way to undo rock burning, I thought I would create this topic so that the matter can be centralized.

The undoing of "Rock Burning" I have in mind is called "Rock Birthing". It undoes the burnt rock and maybe it will even allow you to make land out of void cells. (no point in doing this to struc given that it is the PF version of digitalis)

From my perspective, if Rock Burner isn't undoable, then I fear PF will face some of the same negative feelings that I'm sure plenty of us had about CW2's permanent excavation feature, which was only relieved in CW3 when the Terp was given the ability to not only dig land down, but also remake it and even make more of it.

In this case, not only do I think that it should be possible to make land, so that maybe you can make more interesting things and shapes, but I also think that there should be a way to control which land to burn or "birth" and the video showed no way of doing that so far. Maybe it will be part of the polish.

A large part of what made CW3 so good was the fact that almost every single humanly possible little detail was given special TLC; the UI, the weapon panels, the options, the diversity, etc. If less attention is paid to PF in the same manner, then I worry the final release will be met with far less praise than CW3, and possible the whole CW series in general, was met with.

I don't mean that PF should have all the same features retranslated into PF format. I mean that PF should not slack in any UI-friendly tricks or gimmicks or player-goods.

[Cavemaniac]

Mmmmm......

I dunno.

I quite like the idea that you have to think really carefully before blasting a hole in the landscape - good luck 'un-nukeing' it!

[knucracker]

Creating land has a significant impact on game play.  For instance, if you can make land out of nothing then you can place just a few cells of land around your energy mines and they are safe and secure forever.  That would lead every map to be played as a quick race to get land creation and then armor up your energy mines.

That doesn't mean land creation can't show up in some way or another, just that it isn't a no brainer or comparable to either CW2 excavation or CW3 terraforming.

[jaworeq]

There's also different issue regarding land - if you burn it, you prevent yourself from having more energy. Void can't be mired. It makes this tool really a last resort for me, to be used only where really needed (like making small path for own particles, but never to clear out half the map.

And on the other hand, if you could MAKE land, it would force plays like I do in CW3. I get foothold, then I spam my side of the map with reactors. And slowly I get my energy production high, until I have enough to start making weapons and making a push without worrying about energy. Making land would force you to make land on your side, just for that extra energy.

[Vanguard]

Casting in my voice, as I´ve done on the blog already, to not have rock burn be undoable. And terraforming in space MIGHT have it´s uses in offcases for some very specific maps, but overall I feel the problems (terraforming madness, less map control needed, Particles pathing etc. ) outweigh the gains.

If you balance your maps around players not gaining additional terrain, terraformers will have a distinct advance. If you balance it around terrforming, non terraformers will have an unnecessary hard time. Especially considering how Virgil still has to specify on the escalation factors, which will probably be time or condition based.

Either way, this decision dictates a lot about the way the game is played. I feel that having choices with distinct disadvantages is more meaningful in terms of gameplay decisions.

From my perspective, if Rock Burner isn't undoable, then I fear PF will face some of the same negative feelings that I'm sure plenty of us had about CW2's permanent excavation feature, which was only relieved in CW3 when the Terp was given the ability to not only dig land down, but also remake it and even make more of it.

I haven´t followed the knuckle crackers forums at the release of CW2, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Never, ever, not even once, did it  occur to me in CW2 that I needed to get that particular square of land back in order to complete the mission. I always understood that digging either is done to get more build space, create room for a relay/weapon/utility or start an offensive.

Could you maybe elaborate on this? I feel there´s a point there to be made, but I honestly don´t understand what to make of it yet.

[Fireball14]

Creating land has a significant impact on game play.  For instance, if you can make land out of nothing then you can place just a few cells of land around your energy mines and they are safe and secure forever.  That would lead every map to be played as a quick race to get land creation and then armor up your energy mines.

That doesn't mean land creation can't show up in some way or another, just that it isn't a no brainer or comparable to either CW2 excavation or CW3 terraforming.

My 5 cents:
I would like to see option to UNDO rock burning. You destroyed some preset land. When you get back to rock burning tool again, you can see half-transparent land where it was. When you click on that half-transparent land, ship start building it up again using twice as much energy. So basically you can modify only preset land, but cant create new one.

I haven´t followed the knuckle crackers forums at the release of CW2, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Never, ever, not even once, did it  occur to me in CW2 that I needed to get that particular square of land back in order to complete the mission. I always understood that digging either is done to get more build space, create room for a relay/weapon/utility or start an offensive.

Could you maybe elaborate on this? I feel there´s a point there to be made, but I honestly don´t understand what to make of it yet.

In CW2 you would need to plan each cell you dig ahead of whole mission, and if you dig too much, you could end up with no place to build your structures on. So if you translate it to PF, if you dig too much you might not have enough energy generation to kill enemy.

[TLFP]

If you had the ability to create a PF version of wall anywhere in a lathe's range that you can place units on but is destroyed by particles and mire it would be interesting to see. The only problem with that is it might make almost impenetrable bases unless you added a weakness factor (wall - time alive = wall strength) or something like that. Or you could have a land mass that does mire and doesn't block particles from going through.

[Nicant]

And if it doesn't get added, just make it yourself with the PRPL Scripts! Assuming there is going to be Land Changing codes of course :)

[Nebulous]

Creating land has a significant impact on game play.  For instance, if you can make land out of nothing then you can place just a few cells of land around your energy mines and they are safe and secure forever.  That would lead every map to be played as a quick race to get land creation and then armor up your energy mines.

You could have it so that you have to have burned rock first, making it go through a storage system of some sort, and then be able to put it back down in a new spot. That'll slow down the "Rock Birthing" process by a good amount, making it so that you can actually play the game like it's meant to be.

That, or you get the system later in the game.

[cooltv27]

going with what shockblast has said, maybe you can also make it so that you dont collect 100% of what you destroy, maybe 25% or 10%

[Nebulous]

Maybe a bit higher with the percentage, though. Like 25% or 35%. In this game not all maps have plenty of land in the game. If you are going to use that feature, make sure you use it wisely.

[hbarudi]

I suggest to make it at least possible to rebuild land that you destroyed, for the map to save the original land layout and any land destroyed can also be rebuilt at the end to restore the map to its original layout after damaging it to send particles across.

[Nebulous]

Well, as far as I can tell, the Rock Burning process takes a bit of time to finish. You could stop the operation before it's finished (if that's what you're talking about).

[TripleKings]

You may be able to create this through coding in custom maps, like in Creeper World 3.