How To Make The Game More Interesting - Increasing Creeper Spawn

[myzozoz]

So. First of all, I want to congratulate Knuckle Cracker for making the most addictive game there has ever been and I love it and have a ton of hours already put into the game. There is one major "flaw" in the game though.

You see, it's the basic mechanism that gets you hooked, but in the long run may not be enough to keep you interested. I am talking about the static creeper spawn.

The problem with static creeper spawn is that the game is decided within the first 10-20 minutes, but may still drag on for hours. This is something I call the foothold meta. All you need to do is get a foothold. That foothold should include one TOTEM and enough room for a FORGE. If the creeper can't overwhelm you at that point, it can't overwhelm you at any point. Since you have the FORGE and a TOTEM, you can just leave the game on 4x speed and go eat or go out on a walk, because the creeper won't get you. And when you come back you can buy everything in the FORGE, making expanding very easy. Since there's no penalty for waiting, you can just as well wait.

The only exception to the rule that I have found so far is FARBOR. It has a time limit. FARBOR gives the most challenge by far and is also the most fun to clear. It forced me to get creative instead of just chilling with 5+ BERTHAS behind my shield wall and wait for the creeper to be so thin i could advance with 2-3 turrets. I also had to think carefully what to upgrade on the FORGE, taking the game to a whole new tactical level.

I think the solution to this problem is very simple and present in the title as well, why not make the creeper spawn increase over time? Start out slower for the sake of balance, and then make it increase over time. This way playing fast would be directly encouraged in the core game play and there would definitely be a decrease in those hour-long-stretched games that just become tedious.

Good sides:
-Makes the meta a lot more fast-paced.
-Makes maps harder and therefore more interesting.
-Adds an extra strategic layer to the game.
-You could allow the THOR in every map, since you would have to hold out the time it takes to build it.

Problems with this idea so far:
-Old maps need a remake, which can be a big and time consuming effort.
-I don't know if the game engine allows the changing of creeper spawn values mid-game, but this could be bypassed by adding more creeper spawns like in ARCA.
-Maps become a lot harder, so there might be a need for balancing OR a difficulty slider so as to not discourage less experienced players.

Alternative solutions (to the same problem):
-At some point survival mode activates, like in one of the earlier creeper world games, flooding the world with huge amounts of creeper.
-Just a straight up time limit (a little bit boring imo, but better than nothing).

So, discuss the idea. Criticize it, commend it, suggest improvements, everything!

[Godsbrother]

I'm guessing you haven't done much beyond the mission maps yet.  Most of what you suggest is quite possible and has at least been attempted in colonial space(user generated maps).   Try Custom Map #232: Domorthea. By: Clean0nion   or Custom Map #266: The First Superweapon. By: Richard333 for example. 

[planetfall]

Easily doable with crpl. Most of my maps have this, in fact. As well as increasing spores, faster runners, and as of late also stronger crpl enemies.

Also the penalty for waiting is you get a terrible time. I don't play for time on user or prospector maps (there are just too many) but the story levels (which I first thought were trivially easy up to otrav) are actually a challenge to do quickly.

[F0R]

Missions maps aren't meant to be too difficult as they introduce new players to the game. The real challenge like people said is made from good quality maps made by community players that get progressively harder as they go on.

[Clean0nion]

Anyone who thinks Farbor is a fun map has the potential to be a brilliant player. Seriously? You describe Farbor as challenging?

Anyhow. I've a little game for you.
Head to the World Editor, and make a map. From here, if you want to avoid your fashionably bold foothold meta, you have two options. The first option is really simple and the second isn't, but is more versatile.

Your first option is islands. Get a blob of land and surround it with void. Only creeper levels above 500 can get across void so you've essentially got a little mini-level per island. This is what I did on 232: Domorthea (which Godsbrother was so kind as to mention). Once you've a foothold on one island, it normally doesn't take too long to clear it. But then the foothold meta disappears, because that's not the end of the level. You have to make another foothold in the next island. And so on, until all the emitters are killed or the inhibitor is killed.

The second option is CRPL, Creeper World 3's built-in programming language. If you're any good with code you can probably learn CRPL in two seconds flat (obvious hyperbole) and if it's your first computer language (like it was for me) then it's actually really simple to understand, and it is quite powerful.
In the level editor, head to the Units tab, then click Scripts. A GUI will pop up showing all the scripts you have in this map. Creating a script then clicking Edit will open the script in the browser (which by default on Windows is Notepad, but I use Notepad++). Then it's just like writing any code. All the APIs are here on the KC wiki: http://knucklecracker.com/wiki/doku.php?id=crpl:crplreference .
Using CRPL to evade the foothold meta is far, far better than simply using islands, because you can do pretty much anything. I'll use Domorthea as an example again.
In Domorthea, you have 5 collectors to play with and though reactors are also limited, you won't want to build more than about 5. This is because there's a CRPL spore tower at the south of the map, which fires spores once a minute. The number of spores it fires is determined by the formula in the spoiler:

Spoiler

a² where a is the number of built reactors on the map.
Which is, in CRPL, <-reactorCount 2 pow.
Of course it's not quite that simple, because you have to first get the actual reactor count and then fire spores based on that. Even so, it's one of the more simple CRPL scripts. Full script is here:

Spoiler

GetTimer0 eq0 if
   1800 SetTimer0
   "REACTOR" @GetUnitTypeCount 0 do
      CurrentCoords RandUnitCoords 1 10 CreateSpore
      10 delay
   loop
endif

:GetUnitTypeCount
   ->unitType
   0 ->count
   do (GetUnitsInRange(0 0 9999) 0)
      ->unitUID
      if (GetUnitType(<-unitUID) eq(<-unitType))
         <-count add(1) ->count
      endif
   loop
   <-count

[close]

[close]

What that particular method does is force you to be super energy efficient, and also means that if you choose to expand, you might not have enough beams to actually do so. It also means you'll be using up valuable power zones.
But CRPL isn't limited to spores and counting reactors. You can do pretty much whatever you want, and if you want to avoid the foothold meta then you'll want a map that increases in difficulty as you progress.
However, something that's very easy to do in CRPL is to make the map get harder as time goes on. This is normally the wrong way to go about it. What you should be doing is increasing difficulty based on the player's progress, and if possible, add some pressure to get them moving along.

Anyway, now to address one of your other points. You mentioned static creeper spawn (also bold). With CRPL, this isn't necessary. You can change the emit amount of an emitter dynamically at any point through the game. For an example of this I'd strongly recommend playing one of J's maps; I suggest 281: Progressor.

You also mentioned BERTHAE*. I do commend your choice of colours and boldness. Some like BERTHAE, some don't. I personally don't. You'll find you won't be able to use any in any of my maps, and there are other maps by other people that focus entirely on them.

About the FORGE. The mapmaker can change what upgrades are available and how much they cost. The rate at which totems release aether can also be modified. Some maps have no totems at all, and some use resource packs instead, which release a finite amount of aether once during the entire game, forcing you to use what you have in the best way.

And the THOR? No. No, no, no. It's far too powerful. I'll give you a quote from Planetfall concerning the map 349: Destiny by Somebeing.

This is the first custom map I've seen that uses Thor in a way that adds to the game rather than detracts.

And that's all I have to say. The moral is: make your own map.

*I say berthae, not berthas. Is "berthas" the official spelling? I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my pure rebelliousness.

[Asbestos]

I don't know what to say here, because Clean0nion said everything to say. Damn you, Onion!

[Jamz]

I don't know what to say here, because Clean0nion said everything to say. Damn you, Onion!

lol.


But on a serious note, (and I'm not saying this to try and make myself sound like a brilliant player), but Farbor was also the map I enjoyed the most in story mode. Which is why I also enjoy planetfall's maps the most (so far) in CS. (which reminds me, I still need to play Asteroid Assault).

The thing I particularly like about planetfall's maps alongside all the innovativeness and interesting enemies and units to use and blah blah, is that it's not just about getting a foothold. I have experienced with quite a number of maps that beating a map is all about getting a good foothold. Sometimes I play a map, get a foothold and then I think to myself, "do I really need to bother finishing it now because I've done the hard bit. At this point, I could let my dopey little brother finish it". This is why unfortunately I'm not a fan of Tormented Space and Prospector Zone. But with planetfall's maps, yeah you need to get a foothold but even then, to proceed from there still takes quite a fair bit of thinking and strategy.

Anyway, it seems like all I've done in this post is glorify planetfall. But the point I meant to get across is that I do understand and agree with what OP has said but also, I would like to suggest as others have done, to keep an eye on Colonial Space for that's the place where we'll likely see some very exciting and unique maps.

[J]

I fully agree with C0 here. It's all up to the mapmaker to make it interesting. My personal favorite way to prevent boring games as myzozoz describes is to make the map hard to survive and once you have a stable foothold, easy to finish. Anyways, that's what I try to do in my miniland and tinyland maps. And you don't even need CRPL for it!

[Clean0nion]

Anyways, that's what I try to do in my miniland and tinyland maps.

And because those maps are so small, nobody really minds that they have to finish them once they have a foothold.

[Tjgalon]

I agree, Story maps, get you used to the basic, and towards the end, force you to think a little differently from how your use to, but to really test your skill, get to the custom maps, and alpha sector maps.

[burguertime]

Take into account that OP probably bought the game, played the story and then created the forum account to post that comment.

he still has only 1 post, so probably haven't returned to comment on his own thread, or was scared away by you trolls.

Lets not newbie bash. Not that you are doing it now, or are, but lets be receptive to the newbies.