Custom Map Maker Galaxies

ShadowDragon7015 · December 12, 2012, 11:41:47 PM

There is an interesting topic mentioned that i would like to know about. With the custom maps would it be possible for in CW3 for each player to have their own galaxy with certain missions locked by certain requirements chosen by the map maker, and for there to be a way to search through these galaxies?

Ronini · December 13, 2012, 02:58:10 AM

I have no idea, how custom maps and galaxies (I'll stick with galaxy for the moment. I haven't made up my mind if I prefer the term sector) will go together, but here is what I'd like to see (which might not be possible or viable, mind):

1. "stand alone" maps are not limited to appearing in one galaxy.
2. Because of 1 you can, as a player, browse through custom maps by "creating" different galaxies by using filters. I.e. "Show me a galaxy map with only maps that have a completion time of about 5min" Other filters are, of course, author name, creation date, map size, rating, etc.
3. Maps get tags. So you could filter maps that use AC, that allow no strafers, that are puzzle maps, that are collaborations, and so on..
4. A map can have more than one author name attached to it (similar to a tag system).
5. There is an option to assign a map to a specific (persistent) galaxy. There will be the option to create a galaxy (which will be just a name and tag) If another player wants to submit a map to that galaxy (say "p1 and 2's puzzles") they enter that in the map information and wait for the galaxy creator's approval.
6. A map can be locked to a specific galaxy for campaigns and such. Locked maps are still shown in the open search feature, but cannot be accessed, or rather act as a wormhole and link to the campaign galaxy.

I'm sure I missed something, but I can't put my finger on it.
Looking forward to the community splitting secret new ideas Virgil is working on. I have a feeling it will touch this matter in some way.

lurkily · December 13, 2012, 09:09:20 AM

I mentioned what I would like to see from this a while ago.

I would like to see all custom maps organized via dynamically generated sectors. For instance, a 'sort by rating sector", where you get the maps rated in the top twenty, then wormholes leading to the 'next 20 maps'.

Sort by date, sort by this, sort by that.

Then sort by author would be a wormhole nexus to various authors. Each author would have a sector that his maps would array themselves in. They could organize these maps, set some up to be locked until others were completed, etc.

I would like the option to start a game with all your custom maps scattered within it (not done automatically.) For that, I agree, the ability to specify a sector for your map would be good.

Chawe800 · December 13, 2012, 03:53:58 PM

I remember discussing the possibilities of having user-created maps organized in sectors and people's own galaxies for campaigns and stuff and I highly encourage it. I think this kind of stuff could provide an interesting dynamic of custom created map opportunities.

Basically let the user control it's own sector and galaxy of maps and worlds.

Ronini · December 13, 2012, 04:54:00 PM

I don't think user specific galaxies are very practical. Many players might never need one , because they won't ever create a map. Some creators might require a dozen galaxies for a dozen different campaigns.
A "sort by" option is indeed a neat addition to the mentioned filters.

lurkily · December 13, 2012, 05:10:32 PM

Quote from: Ronini on December 13, 2012, 04:54:00 PM
I don't think user specific galaxies are very practical. Many players might never need one , because they won't ever create a map. Some creators might require a dozen galaxies for a dozen different campaigns.
A "sort by" option is indeed a neat addition to the mentioned filters.

I'm going to be using the terminology used and demonstrated by V, to avoid confusion. The galaxy map has sectors, the sector map has planets, each of which is a map.

As per my description, an author who didn't really have a use for his sector would have his sector automatically populated as he created maps in a manner that was natural, but not manually ordered.

A mapper who really NEEDS separate regions of space can, due to the networked nature of travel, create 'gateways' where only one path connects regions, or a 'hub map' (Or use the wormhole into their sector as a hub) which connects several regions. Just because the mapper doesn't have a sector map doesn't mean they can't segment their maps into sectors by cleverly arranging their sectors. This requires no special support.

EDIT: sort by was not actually meant to be a filter. I meant travelling to an actual sector which is dynamically generated on the fly, and sorts used maps by a criteria. You would have a 'sort by date' sector and a 'sort by rating' sector, which would arrange themselves every time you entered them.

Checking to see if there were new custom maps would be represented in-game as the player actually travelling to a sector they'd never seen before. A sector automatically populated with the maps they sought, and arranged in a way that represented how well they fit the criteria the player wanted to sort by.

This should probably be in addition to a more conventional listing-type of download system, for players who are not really comfortable with the concept of travel as a mechanism for downloading new maps.

4xC · December 16, 2012, 12:13:44 AM

Considering that space location descriptions sometimes have "quadrants" in their factors, what would happen if CW3 was divided into quadrants as well as galaxies and sectors?

BTW, if there are going to be multiple galaxies, how would that coincide with the current plot? As it stands, humanity is still very thin and for their to be activity in the game in other galaxies, either there will likely need to be a large time jump from the past game, or some other race fighting on the other side of the universdal rim or something :D, heh heh heh (in the event that there is a MULTIVERSE.) HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. :D ;D :D ;D

Neko187 · December 16, 2012, 05:10:23 PM

consider how astronomical objects are grouped today. We have planets, which are then grouped into systems around their stars, which are then grouped into clusters. The submitter's name would be used as the cluster, the stars could be organized by popularity, size, date submitted, etc. and the planets would each represent a map, organized by completion time, difficulty, size, date submitted, etc.

Ronini · December 16, 2012, 05:25:28 PM

If clusters were authors and planets maps, what would stars be?

lurkily · December 16, 2012, 07:27:48 PM

What purpose would the additional layers of quadrants and galaxies serve?

To add the extra steps of having to find the galaxy, then the quadrant, then the sector, then the map that you wanted to play, I think they need to have a very clear and important purpose that serves gameplay. This isn't something that should be done 'because it's cool'.

The only purpose I can think of for any layers of this kind is as a gateway system - to restrict a player's progress. This can be to prevent them from accessing extremely challenging areas before they have a chance to find technologies, or to prevent them from accessing regions demanding more complex strategies before they have been 'trained' to use the strategies already at their disposal, or to prevent a new player from being overwhelmed with information or intimidated by the wealth of choices that are immediately open to them.

For those purposes, I think the single layer of sectors is enough.

Ronini · December 17, 2012, 01:31:54 AM

Do I understand you correctly? You suggest that in order to be able to play certain custom maps, you first have to progress far enough in the main game to unlock all the techs used in said custom maps. That's not good. Even without considering the implications that would have if one were to reinstall the game on a new machine a couple of months/years after the initial play-through.

I oppose the "one star map" idea you seem to have. Apart of being a huge drain on the computer's performance, it would be hell to manage. I don't see a way to get around restructuring the map as needed. Just think of a few ways ou could search for a map. Do you look for it in an author's sector, in the sector for maps that can be completed in under 5 minutes, in the sector for maps that have a 4-plus overall rating or the sector for maps you rated 5? One map. In four very different sectors. Confusing. So why not create a specific map to serve your current need on the fly?

lurkily · December 17, 2012, 07:34:43 AM

I'm not talking about custom maps at all. I never said custom maps - I'm talking about stock, campaign gameplay.

Now: From here on, I'll address your posts instead of 4xC's, which will be all about custom maps, and nothing about the campaign. I think.

What are you talking about when you indicate 'one star map'? I don't recognize the term, and as much as I consider it, I don't understand the implications you're trying to indicate with those words.

As for how to search for a map? Search for it in any of those ways. The same map should exist in all of those sectors. I should be able to find every map in an author's sector (Eventually) by exploring the 'all maps sorted by date' sector as well.

Dynamically organizing information isn't hard. It's as old as databases. The only difference is that instead of using the results to display text in a certain order, we use results to display little spinning planet-y images in a certain arrangement.

The author's personal sector should not be dynamically arranged. New maps should be placed automatically, but they shouldn't be re-arranged unless the map author re-arranges it.

Ronini · December 17, 2012, 07:41:50 AM

Ah. I guess the threads title got me confused.

lurkily · December 17, 2012, 07:51:37 AM

I think - might be mistaken - that 4xC was generalizing about the entire game structure, not just custom maps. He got into story there a bit.

When I explained what layers like that were used for, I was generalizing about their use in gaming. I think that we don't have a need for more segmentation anywhere, even in the stock campaign. I don't think there's a use for it in the custom map organization at all, though there might be an organizational purpose that it serves somehow.

Sorry if I came across a bit snippy. I woke up just a few minutes to go, and the tea is still slapping me into shape.

Ronini · December 17, 2012, 08:19:41 AM

I was under the impression you were talking about all possible kinds of maps (story, generic, custom) being placed in one single star chart (as in map of the stars), all together. Hence "one star map" as opposed to "multiple different star maps". As an option (one chart showing all maps), this might be okay. But without the alternative of filtering (and thus generating a new chart, because new paths will have to be assigned between the individual (remaining) maps) it'd make map selection a nightmare.
But since you were referring to just the campaign, you are, of course, right. Sectors (i.e. areas in the main star chart) marking difficulty are about the only point said layers would have.

Sorry about my confusion. I thought you were referring to sushiman's post which mentions "submitters" and thus clearly refers to custom maps.

Regarding 4XC's post:
I wouldn't worry too much about the plot justifying the whole custom map feature. It didn't in CW1 and it didn't in CW2. And why should it?