CW3 Suggestions Redux

[UpperKEES]

I really want to see an option where I can construct reactors connected to storages so that I can have a self sustaining base not connected to the command nodes. I doubt this will happen though because I don't think Virgil designed CW3 for it and it would eliminate guppies.

So you've got 3 Command Nodes that allow for three independent networks plus guppies that will support any independent paratroopers, but you still want a 4th self sustaining base? You must really like multitasking! ;)

[mpete]

Energy guppy to a command node, packet guppy back?

[Ronini]

I think it's good to have some limitations. A CN should be the only way to create energy and convert it to other uses (so reactors and collectors only produce energy when they are connected to a CN).
Using a storage as buffer on a forward-base will only work as long as the delivering guppy is drained before the storage unit. That is, the storage unit only begins to distribute it's stored packets when there is no other source available. But if you have to implement that, you might just as well add this draining-priority to guppies, so that a guppy is kept at full capacity as long as possible and only starts to empty when another guppy is returning to base. It's that easy.

[lurkily]

I don't want to see anything manufacture packets other than CN's, frankly.  It eliminates the need for CN's almost entirely - the only function they can no longer fulfill is refining ore.  If you wanted to fight without AC, you could just send guppies to the surface to begin construction  I think keeping packet construction in the CN is important for keeping these crucial units crucial.  The way to make a forward base self-sustaining should be to connect it by hard-line.  Hard-line should always be the 'gold standard' of supply, in my opinion, because it offers the most challenges.  Geography, creeper, vulnerability to destruction, etc.

Ronini - it's true that the Guppy-buffer is limited.  But if if runs dry like that, either you don't have enough supply to run those guns anyway, or the request rate of the pad on the beachhead is is insufficient to run them.  Either way, add another guppy for supply, or another guppy pair, supply and buffer.

A better solution that doesn't complicate the guppy, is to permit it to launch with a partial load.

Energy guppy to a command node, packet guppy back?

I thought of that.  But what if there's a CN on both sides, and you only want to bring the excess energy from one side to the other?  

[Ronini]

Lurkily: Either I did not understand you, or you did not understand me.
It was suggested that if you use multiple guppies on a forward base, they are all drained simultaneously, causing a gap in packet delivery.
I was proposing that only one guppy is identified as a source of packets at a time. So the network would switch to the second guppy only when the first is empty and returns to base to recharge. That way, you wouln't need to give the guppy a "buffer" mode. It would work like that just as it is. No complication.

Two guppies not enough to provide continuous supply? Add a third, which starts being drained when the second guppy is empty. A fourth, fifth, n-th guppy would work the same way.

Only CNs being able to manufacture packets? That's what I said, isn't it?

Edit:

A forward base supplied by 2-3 guppies will, eventually, see all of them in flight at the same time, as they aren't drawn from evenly.  Having the buildings in that base preferentially draw power from a guppy that has a partial load before they start drawing upon a guppy with a full load would solve this problem. 

Which incidentally says what I said, too. And in a much less confusing way, too.

[inspiratieloos]

I think the problem right now is that each guppy gets drained simultaneously, so if you have 2 guppies in a forward base they might both run out at the same time.

If a full guppy would only send packets if it was the only source then the first guppy would drain completely while the second waits, then when guppy1 heads back to restock 2 gets drained and when 1 gets back it waits until 2 is drained before supplying it's own packets.

I assume there is already some sort of priority system for where any given unit draws it's packets from, probably based on whatever is closer (what happens when something is connected to both a CN and a guppy?).
If priorities were changed to prefer drawing from a partially full guppy before a full guppy even if it is farther away, that would make the risk of running out of packets despite having what should be a good supply line much smaller.

Pedit:ninja'd

[UpperKEES]

It was suggested that if you use multiple guppies on a forward base, they are all drained simultaneously, causing a gap in packet delivery.
I was proposing that only one guppy is identified as a source of packets at a time. So the network would switch to the second guppy only when the first is empty and returns to base to recharge. That way, you wouln't need to give the guppy a "buffer" mode. It would work like that just as it is. No complication.

I think the Guppy closest to the consuming unit is always used. If you prefer to drain one of them first, you can simply deactivate the other(s).

[Chawe800]

What you people are explaining ^ is a complicated way of using guppies when the storage works! You have two guppies suppling your base. Well if you connect a storage then you don't have guppies sitting with full loads doing nothing. You'll always have guppies being able to supply energy to the front line. Your guppies method seems much more inefficient then storage buffers because then you have guppies with full loads not doing anything.

Having the storage only distribute when there are no guppies available could work in the sense the guppy partially charges the storage while still charging the weapons. If you have a storage buffer operating full enough then your weapons should be able to draw full energy supplies from the guppies and storage.

The storage is basically the perm-landed guppy Lurkily and Shrike explained earlier.

We probably should move on to another topic now. :P

[inspiratieloos]

The thing you're forgetting is that good management of the guppies you already have removes the need for a buffer, thus ensuring the AI uses guppy energy better automatically is preferable to making a work-around that requires either extra player input or building an extra unit just to ensure the game doesn't screw up.

[Chawe800]

Yea but I think having a buffer is a really good safety precaution.

(and it's stops me from worrying the entire situation is going to fall apart.)

[lurkily]

Yea but I think having a buffer is a really good safety precaution.

(and it's stops me from worrying the entire situation is going to fall apart.)

The guppy IS everything you're asking for, at the moment - just less intuitive.  A little clumsier, too, really, but functional.  The only fundamental gameplay difference between guppy buffers and a storage shows when you fail to have adequate logistics supplying your guns . . . at which point, you SHOULD be having problems.

My main issue with seeking to implement a new storage device is that I don't think a new unit with that sole purpose would have enough utility.  Another issue though, is that many packet sources causes a pathfinding burden for packets.  Keep in mind, we've seen a demonstration in one of the earlier videos that pathfinding burdens are a consideration - pathfinding has already changed.  (The Area 256 post, I think, though I don't think he commented on it in the video.)  Instead of rechecking the shortest path at every node, they appear to recheck the path only when they hit a dead end due to network changes.

Right now, I'm mainly thinking about a third titan . . . I'm not interested in seeing something we already have, just bigger . . . something new would be nice.  (And no, I don't count a single unit with eight or ten guns we already have on it as something new.  Can't count the number of Thor MkII suggestions I've seen.)

[Chawe800]

We already finished talking about the guppies.

I wasn't suggesting a new unit

I really like the concept of having an ability to push creeper that's not close to your front lines condensed in a different location. Whether it be the suicidal vacuum balloon suggested or some sort of titan that shoots Creeper attraction shots I would love to see that implemented.

[Ronini]

You know what would be a really great addition? A unit that vaporizes all creeper in an instant and also destroys all non-friendly units. It could cost really much energy to build and also a lot of ammo.

Obviously, I don't mean that. Although it might even be fun to use this weapon just once. I try to make te following point: Whatever new addition there will come mustn't take away the challenge. To this end, I like how the forge relies on powered totems to work. The Bertha almost appears too powerful and (though I don't know if this has happened since we last saw it) probably could do with a slower rate of fire and/or an increase of ammo costs, in my book. Although I already have the feeling that if a good time is what you're after, the Bertha is not the way to go. Anyway, both hit that small area between being useless and being OP.

While typing the above, I came up with an idea for a third titan (apologies if it has been suggested before). A wind generator. It allows the player to controll the wind on the map (or an area). It could be used to ease the pressure on your defensive lines, or to pool up creeper against a wall (Here you go, people wishing for a creeper-condenser), or to neutralize (redirect) the map-inherent wind. Energy cost could vary depending on the wind strength. It should have a maximum, though. It might just end up a bit too far on the useless side, but at least it shouldn't be OP (given a reasonable maximum strength).

What do you think?

[Chawe800]

We seem to enough enough weapons that are created to destroy creeper. I think titan suggestions are currently focused around clever creeper manipulating mechanics.

It's a good idea but isn't that just one giant shield and doesn't that just ruin the mechanic of the wind in CW3 maps. If you can cancel out the wind the map has then there's no purpose in the wind.

[lurkily]

As for giving the guppy new modes . . . (Rather than separating it out as a unit, which I mistakenly thought you meant,)  I don't think we'd be successful seeking a new dispatch mode in a unit that's already losing important things like AC carriage for reasons of complexity.  

I'm considering titan ideas like economic titans . . . but that seems too easy. Blog discussion considered a tesla device, which would slightly damage all creeper connectied to the impact zone - potentially most of the map - my a small amount.  I also considered something like a torpedo - striking at the deepest creeper, it can reach, but the projectile limited to pathfinding through only areas immersed in creeper or AC.