Creeper World 3 Suggestions Initiative

[RedVenom]

oneway relays dont regulate energy crisis

This isn't quite true.  Limited relays would cause the same problem

if the limited relays have a number of packets per minute they cause that promlem too

but to keep it simple there could be a button that resources that under heavy load cant pass by
so you have a single button and regulate energy and ore crisis also avoid the problem to change
the option every time because if the is some easy time you have enough energy and it flow again
but only what is overproduced

[Lord_Farin]

Just for my $0.02, I think that while the theory behind these special types of relays sounds nice (and could be worked out in some games probably - those could have loads of potential for the "hardcore" market) I'm not sure CW needs it. It's primarily a tool for expert players, but these players have enough skill and/or patience to manage their energy without the aid of these machines. Just sayin'.

[lurkily]

oneway relays dont regulate energy crisis

I don't think he actually intended his suggestion of limited relays to regulate energy crises.

but to keep it simple there could be a button that resources that under heavy load cant pass by
so you have a single button and regulate energy and ore crisis also avoid the problem to change
the option every time because if the is some easy time you have enough energy and it flow again
but only what is overproduced

I would rather apply this to individual units, not to collectors or relays.  What happens if I move a blaster that bridges to my main network, and totally circumvents the relay?

With that in mind, I would prefer a priority system, and I'd prefer to apply it to units, not to relays/collectors.  I like intricacy in the network, but without complexity, if that makes sense.

[Chawe800]

I find myself in between casual and hardcore (just beat Loki map without the Thor today) and I would only use that one way relay thing. I really don't feel all these crazy relay ideas are going to be that helpful for many people :P

(another person posting as I post :P)

I got an idea for reactors As what I've seen from Virgil's various screenshots once the player has cleared off a small amount of space they can slowly construct a massive amount of reactors to be constructed allowing you to mass an incredible amount of energy at your disposable (this method is true in CW1 too.)

That's why I suggest the ability of only being able to construct a certain amount of reactors before you need more space to construct a reactor. Another option would be not being able to construct reactors near anything in a certain radius

Honetly I think CW3 is too far in development to make a serious change to the reactor mechanism

[4xC]

I second that bit about the relays. Energy burn is ALWAYS done by anything other than the friendly structures (guppies do not count because they dispatch their packets to other things, not use them except for when they are under construction). As such, there is no point in altering relays anymore than they already have been. Besides, there's too many interconnections when you have collectors all around to back up the frontline coverage.

This limit for the reactors actually does sound like a significantly large change for CW3 though.  However, I would be interested if they could have some sort of energy production upgrade like "Tiberian Sun"'s GDI power plants allow players to build power turbines on them to increase their power generation. On the other hand, the power in question was used up more if more buildings and defense structures were produced, including map radar; power had nothing to do with the number of units (which were infantry and air and ground vehicles and machines). That last bit applied to both GDI and NOD.

I agree that CW3 is too far developed already for major changes in the units except for the modifications like the bertha auto-target.

Despite that, the radar thing I just mentioned makes me wonder if CW3 could use a map radar system that mainly implements a "fog of war".

[Lord_Farin]

Despite that, the radar thing I just mentioned makes me wonder if CW3 could use a map radar system that mainly implements a "fog of war".

+1 for this last idea; at least, it could be an option for the custom maps. This comes naturally with radar towers of course (which can then be upgraded, etc. etc.).

[Mr.H]

 Maybe the game should include 'advanced options' in the game options. This is for the hardcore players who want to try advanced tactics to maximise gametime and own the creeper like a boss, this is also to stop newbies from getting confused over the overflowing amount of buttons. Thus this option would be for experienced and well-tuned players. I think that may solve the whole relay issue, since they're great ideas for squeecing everything out of your network and would be desirable for any hardcore gamer. Now casual players are happy, as are the advanced players. This approach was present in game like 'Rise Of Nations' Which was very sucessful for both audience types, and stays active to this day.

Being able to filter resources and sepeate your networks at will is very handy indeed. Also i think i'll put your concise versions up instead now :P .

@Chawe That sounds intresting... Maybe we can have that for everything.
@Lurkily, Radar ; Like cw2 fog of war. I would definetly want this as an option, perhaps for 'night' maps.


Now then I think three pages of brooding on one suggestion is quite enough, what about some new ideas? I've added the radar suggestion.

[lurkily]

I find myself in between casual and hardcore (just beat Loki map without the Thor today) and I would only use that one way relay thing. I really don't feel all these crazy relay ideas are going to be that helpful for many people :P

It just seems so finicky.  Anything could accidentally bridge to that network and disrupt it.  Applying a priority (or lower priority) for energy delivery directly to units just seems a lot simpler, without requiring any weird routing, complicated structures, or remembering suddenly that the reason network segments are choked is because half the network can't deliver to them.

Radar . . . is kinda 'meh' to me.  I could deal with it, but I don't think it'd add much for me, personally.  Others might feel differently.

Some hard-core CW supporters might violently oppose it, though.  CW has always provided the player with perfect information whenever they wanted it, nothing has ever been hidden.

[Chawe800]

Radar . . . is kinda 'meh' to me.  I could deal with it, but I don't think it'd add much for me, personally.  Others might feel differently.

I think that could work in a manner incredibly similar to Advance Wars stuff. Where you have to option to turn on fog of war every mission kind of as an additional challenge where you don't know where the emitters are or how the terrain is shaped.This could appeal towards the hardcore market in the sense of beating the campaign maps with fog of war on. (I'd find that fun anyways)

There could also be some (not so sure about this) campaign maps that always have fog of war on and some custom maps could really use it.

A possibility for this fog of war would be the ability to transform a relay into a beacon at the expense of a small amount of energy. Some custom maps could have these relay-beacons require a large amount of energy expanding the energy management challenge.

[Lord_Farin]

Some hard-core CW supporters might violently oppose it, though.  CW has always provided the player with perfect information whenever they wanted it, nothing has ever been hidden.

I can imagine where you're coming from. Generally it will just force people to restart maps because they misjudged things that were hidden.

I have to note though that I have encountered code maps in CW2 where multiple coincidences of location of portal and emitter prevented me from guessing which portal would spam the phantoms - not to mention the intricate, multiple-layered emitters some of the custom maps doubtlessly feature. Thus, your argument about perfect information isn't entirely accurate.

[Shrike30]

How is this different than the dedicated relay?  As I understand it, a dedicated relay is a relay that will not accept packets unless they intend to travel along the explicit link you have set out for them.  A dedicated relay leading from your firebase to your main base would achieve the same effect, with no differences that are immediately apparent to me.  Am I missing something?

A dedicated relay won't accept CONNECTIONS except to the next relay in the chain.  It won't make the big web we're used to seeing if you run it through another base, even if you place it right next to another normal relay, until you tell it to.  This is useful if you've got something on the front line that you specifically wish to operate on your backfield network, as you could run a landline connection to it from the backfield network right through the front line network to your destination, and that landline wouldn't establish connections to the base you were running it through.  Have ever seen on a circuit diagram where two wires cross but aren't connected in real life?  This would be how you do that.

A limited relay pair is intended to serve as the single connection between two larger networks, and could be set to only pass particular resources in one direction or the other, or to not pass a particular resource at all.  Either of the relays involved in a pair will freely make connections, so a little bit of care must be taken in placing structures nearby to avoid inadvertently bypassing the limited connection, but that's about as complicated as they get.

Again, yes, this is all mostly something you could do with guppies.  I'd just be interested in seeing land-line options for such things exist as well, and there are a couple of subtle differences in how they'd handle that would come into play.

[lurkily]

Some hard-core CW supporters might violently oppose it, though.  CW has always provided the player with perfect information whenever they wanted it, nothing has ever been hidden.

I have to note though that I have encountered code maps in CW2 where multiple coincidences of location of portal and emitter prevented me from guessing which portal would spam the phantoms - not to mention the intricate, multiple-layered emitters some of the custom maps doubtlessly feature. Thus, your argument about perfect information isn't entirely accurate.

Perfect information by design, if not by implementation.  I don't think this is hidden because of a desire to implement a way to hide phantom count.  

A better example is display of fields, which can be hidden by design - the one and only example of hidden information by design in CW1/2 that I can think of.

A dedicated relay won't accept CONNECTIONS except to the next relay in the chain.  It won't make the big web we're used to seeing if you run it through another base, even if you place it right next to another normal relay, until you tell it to.

This is only the case with dedicated relays that have both a link TO them, and a link FROM them.  A dedicated relay that only has a link from them, but not a link to them, MUST accept packets from outside sources, or no source of packets will be able to follow the chain.  The chain will be, in effect, a totally isolated network consisting only of relays.

Using only two dedicated relays - one linked to the other - you can easily use this to create a one-way relay link, or as you put it, a limited link to another network.  The big difference in this case is that it's the link between relays, not the relay itself, that's special.  EDIT: Unless dedicated relays are a different unit type than relay relays.

[4xC]

I can imagine where you're coming from. Generally it will just force people to restart maps because they misjudged things that were hidden.

So? Just show the structure locations and stats possibly, but have everything else you aren't surrounding hiddeng by the fog of war. Makes it more interesting to learn about the terrain. And in the 1st games in starcraft series, the terrans had a comsat station that revealed fogged spots at the cost of some energy that was infinite but took time to reload. They also detected invisible enemy units.

[Chawe800]

Yea elaborating on the Starcraft fog of war style. You can send scouting ships and weapons to revea the location but when that scout leaves it shows what was mostly recently there.

That would work as well because you could send strafes across the map without enabling them to fire to scout out and reveal the terrain.

[Mr.H]

Can we put the relay discussion at rest at long last, please  ???
Fog of war may not go well with some folks, that's why it should be a custom map feature. Opens up new types of mysterious play anyway.