Creeper World 3 Suggestions Initiative

[Nemoricus]

A bottleneck is a choke point, yes.

[4xC]

A bottleneck is a choke point, yes.

Right. Okay then.

Now what of the cost of the bertha? I know the dark beam of CW2 was significantly more costly than the usual weapons, but it wasn't THAT much more. I also know that the numbers have not been finalized yet, but maybe the bertha needs to be a TAD bit less expensive. 100 v. 350; Really?

I must also insits on this, I do not view the dark beam and bertha as "cousins" or anything like that after Virgil specifically said in a blog comment that the bertha is not a replacement to the dark beam even though I still find the 2 comparable in some ways what with the infinite range and destructive abilities.

Speaking of which, what if the bertha had a catch that made it impossible for friendly units to be within the firing zone of the bertha and live at the same time when the bertha's shot hit the target area, like when the beam of a dark beam would destroy friendly units if they were in or entered the line of fire? And perhaps the bertha could cause some minor damage to creeper structures with each hit? Unless of course that turns out to be the job of an unrevealed titan or orbital or hidden superpower of the "mothership" that could appear at the end of the storyline?

[Nemoricus]

Now what of the cost of the bertha? I know the dark beam of CW2 was significantly more costly than the usual weapons, but it wasn't THAT much more. I also know that the numbers have not been finalized yet, but maybe the bertha needs to be a TAD bit less expensive. 100 v. 350; Really?

Danger! Comparing two numbers from different games is a really bad idea. The mechanics are different in CW3 as compared to CW2, and so doing a direct comparison between them will yield misleading results. For starters, just consider the difference between collectors and reactors in CW1 as opposed to CW2 for an example of what I mean.

As for destroying all friendly units in the blast radius, I think that would just end up being more frustrating than interesting, since you could forget to retarget the Bertha and lose much of your attacking force as a result.

[Wheatmidge]

And the dark beam wasn't more expensive because of teh build cost. it was more expensive because of the firing cost. It ends up being quite like the bertha. The dark beam only cost 100 to build but then it cost 12 a second to fire.

[Kamron3]

I think it needs Creeper Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.

Just saiyan.

[4xC]

Danger! Comparing two numbers from different games is a really bad idea. The mechanics are different in CW3 as compared to CW2, and so doing a direct comparison between them will yield misleading results. For starters, just consider the difference between collectors and reactors in CW1 as opposed to CW2 for an example of what I mean.

As for destroying all friendly units in the blast radius, I think that would just end up being more frustrating than interesting, since you could forget to retarget the Bertha and lose much of your attacking force as a result.

Okay, so the numbers were not a good link between the games, but still, there's something that relates the bertha to the dark beam and it doesn't have to be the economical efficiency.

Also, it would be frustrating if berthas destroyed friendly units in range of their target, but that's also what makes the dark beam frustrating, too. Say that there is this narrow, unwidenable hallway and creeper was flooding its side and coming fast to yuor side. If a dark beam is operational and running its beam down the hall, you can't run any units past it and you can't disarm it without letting yourself get compromised by the creeper. It was also frustrating when drones would destroy the dark mirrors that are vital toalignning the beam. And if you try to realign the beam, you could forget about nearby mirrors that would be compromised by creeper along with possible nullifiers and microrifts whose only protection is the dark beam penning them in an empty space.  The longer the path, the more delicate the path of the dark beam was. There are a lot more examples of how the bertha could end up as frustrating as the dark beam, but they are almost too numerous to put in one post. And besides, some titan weapon has got to put a thorn in the side of some friendlies after what went in CW2.

[Michionlion]

Kamron3!!!!

[Twi]

Well, since I have too many ideas, I might as well throw some out there. Currently includes unit ideas, with coolnames (especially for Titan class stuff), a quick blurb on why this would be cool in game, and a short little counterpoint for each one. Because I'm not perfect and these aren't either, I may as well say the downside as I see it right now.

Spoiler

Creeper-Eater (Hel): A weapon that uses the Creeper it destroys to power itself up. Has a considerable start-up cost and is either slow or immobile, but once it's up and running it provides considerable protection to the area it covers at a relatively low cost in energy. Most likely operates with some sort of beam, increasing its damage output as it eats up Creeper, but it starts to lose said bonus if it stays inactive for a while. Meant more for fortifying an area than for full-on assaults, especially given that it's probably a Titan-class weapon.

Why?: Number one, coolness. Number two, it's an excellent complement to slow and defensive playstyles, since although it takes a while to set up, it's quite effective once operational.

Why not?: Defensive weapons can be kind of boring, can't they?

Shieldwall (Freya): A utility-type that acts as a very strong shield with very short range. As the name suggests, it can link up into a wall of shielding, which gives it an additional benefit of sharing ammo across the entire structure. Since it uses most of its energy when Creeper tries to break through, this allows more troubled sections to use excess energy from calmer sections and make the system as a whole that much stronger.

Why?: First off, it's a different kind of shield -more or less linear rather than circular (it probably has a shield diameter of five- the three cells the unit is on plus the bordering cells). Second, it lets you build large walls out of shields. What more could you want?

Why not?: We already have a shield.

MIRV (Katyusha): Another Titan-class, featuring rockets of death from above! Bombards a large area with submunition-launching rocket(s). The main weakness is height- the weapon simply isn't good against deep creeper, and may be incapable of targeting Creeper that's too low compared to nearby terrain (or even simply other, higher Creeper). Useful for clearing out the high ground, not so useful for launching assaults on entrenched Creeper or in rough terrain.

Why?: Rockets are awesome. Plus, it'd be a very useful unit in conjunction with Guppies, as it's uniquely suited to clearing plateaus for landing. (Wide area damage, possibly over time but nonetheless in a relatively short burst.) High-ground-attack in general seems to suggest some interesting tactical uses and limitations.

Why not?: High-ground-attack might be a bit too specialized.

Driver (Ram): A gun that fires a big, bad, hefty projectile that blows through the Creeper in its path. So basically, it does damage in a straight line. Probably has longer range than Pulse Cannons, but fires slower.

Why?: Because doing damage across a straight line: tactical!

Why not?: Aside from that, it doesn't add much, and its role could overlap with Cannons and/or Strafers depending on how you look at it.

[close]

[Mr.H]

Some very intresting discussions going on. In regards to shield I think they're awesome as they are right now. I also have a new suggestion:
Efficiency mode:
Low on energy, don't want to kamikaze your units and disintegrate your defense network? Worry no more, with the latest efficiency mode developed by some tree-huggers called 'GreenCreep' , this mode allows your units to use a lot less energy when operating. This keeps em going but ofcourse not without a cost, the fire rate slows down, creeper damage decreases, but if you have a lot of units and just need a stand-off whilst you rekindle your economy this is what you need.



As to the bertha cannon, I don't think it's very OP now. It has a insanely long construction time, takes a long time to shoot, and from what I can see it doesn't completly destroy all creeper. Ofcourse I do believe that the creeper should gain some anti-titan weaponrary to counter all those wacky devestating machinery coming up. Maybe even titan creeper?


Also twi those are some pretty epic suggestions, thanks :D . I'll add em now.

[Twi]

You put Driver inside of forgot to close the spoiler for Shieldwall, Mr. H :P
Also, no, Bertha is not OP unless you get a stupidly large number of them, IMO :P
Also, titan Creeper sounds interesting. Maybe have predetermined 'Creeper points' where the Creeper constructs a 'tower' if it gets high enough? And if you take the point and then lose it, it can built it again!

Of course, what this tower entails is subject to considerable debate. Maybe it can include spore towers and Air Exclusion towers and perhaps even emitters. More creatively, a terrain control device would be interesting- something that tries to undo changes your Terps made, working much like a Terp itself. That'd be...interesting.

[Mr.H]

You put Driver inside of forgot to close the spoiler for Shieldwall, Mr. H :P
Also, no, Bertha is not OP unless you get a stupidly large number of them, IMO :P
Also, titan Creeper sounds interesting. Maybe have predetermined 'Creeper points' where the Creeper constructs a 'tower' if it gets high enough? And if you take the point and then lose it, it can built it again!

Of course, what this tower entails is subject to considerable debate. Maybe it can include spore towers and Air Exclusion towers and perhaps even emitters. More creatively, a terrain control device would be interesting- something that tries to undo changes your Terps made, working much like a Terp itself. That'd be...interesting.

Woops , fixed XD.
Yeah but who has the resources to get many fo them anyway.

One of the main issues with the new mega maps is it becomes a grind, so i highyl recommend we find a solution to this problem. Thus making the creeper suddenly much more difficult later on, or somesuch.
1. Progress triggers, once you accomplish a certain goal, time, or size of economy this trigger is activated. This can make the emitters emit more creeper suddenly, increase creeper defenses (larger air-exclusio-zones, faster unit creation rate , etc)
2. Creeper packs- Similar to the gateway in CW2 except this time it's used to slowly construct the powerzone for a new emitter to drop out of orbit. Try to stop this a.s.a.p! Great way to add difficulty to the map, these can only be created on creeper-covered areas.
3. Regions/Triggers- Allready discussed many times before, being able to trigger to move large sums of creeper, and create fancy effects that decimate the base woudl be great.
4. Waves- Having emitter and unit production appear in sudden 'waves' at set intervals, this makes you have to respond quickly and have strong defense system to resist. During the time between this you'll need to quickly cap the enemy positions before you're overwhelmed.
5. Earthquakes- Allready in the suggestion list, this is a naturual (or creeper0 way of manipulating the terrain. You'll have a warning beforehand to prepare and many layers of terrain can move up and down. Units will automaticly fly up if the terrain is changed under them. Great way to change the map mid-game.
,

[allu]

Waves are something I was hoping fields could have done( and propably can be done whit alot of fields whit very carefull timing.)
But changing map in mid-game sounds awesome.

[4xC]

I'm thinking that since the player can modify the ground to any height: why don't the creeper have a way to terraform their own ground too? After all, you can't terrafrom land with creeper on it, but you can with AC on it. So perhaps the creeper could have something that allows it to terraform its affected ground as long as there is no AC in the area being changed to the creeper's will.

[Lord_Farin]

[...] More creatively, a terrain control device would be interesting- something that tries to undo changes your Terps made, working much like a Terp itself. That'd be...interesting.

@4xC: I will be polite and treat your suggestion as an amendment, and assume you came up with it independently.
After all, this thread is rather large and hard to keep track of.

I can understand where you come from; this game has so much potential and awesomeness that I genuinely feel like placing a pre-order, and my mind is crawling with what else could be possible. That's a first, so V, consider this a big compliment to your great efforts.

On the on-topic side, some sort of scripting language with certain hooks (for creating e.g. custom units, fields, events and behaviour) would be even more awesome (thinking of the Unreal Engine scripting language here, which allows almost anything). I don't know if the set-up is modular enough for this, though - but this is only a suggestions thread, so I may as well think out loud.

[Mr.H]

As discussed earlier in the thread the creeper terrain corrosian could be implemented, similar to CW2. All terp ground is automaticly decayble , and map makers can create decayble terrain as well.

Mid-map changes could get annoying, that's why they should still be predictable; but be confusing enough for the player not compare for them completly.