address needed

[Curtis hurst]

you guys r going on like you guys own this game , my resons and ideas are for k.c ears only wat realy has it got to do with you lot!

[Sorrontis]

Well, at this point, its fair to say all good will is out the window (at least on my part).

And if you're wondering, in your own words:

wat realy has it got to do with you lot!

We play the game(s)... some of us exclusively. We are fans of Virgil & KC. We only hope the best for the man. So, if you want to completely redo the game, of course the opinion of the core player base matters :) And of course we are all interested in hearing how you think you can make it all better for the rest of the community. These are things that are important to us.

[Curtis hurst]

you guys think you r somthink I understand this community thing you guys got going on (and I love it) the fact you concerne yourselfs way you do, but guys you are missing the point you r just custermers at the end of the day, just cos you guys r a fans of virgil and k.c  and play there games meens nout to the research ive done , my solid resoning is not for your ears!

[planetfall]

With all due respect, after Karsten, established members are the closest that Knuckle Cracker has to "reps." Knuckle Cracker has only two employees, and would not have an address in Manchester. For what it's worth, I was able to find a (admittedly, possibly outdated) mailing address simply using google, so if that's what you truly wanted, you could have found it without all this fuss.

Other than that, I would like to echo what Sorrontis said above. CW3 is, for all intents and purposes, finished. If it ever receives an update again, which is very unlikely, it will be for bug fixes and not features. If you want your unspecified ideas to come to fruition, you can either try to create your ideas in CRPL, create your own game based on them, or save your ideas for the next Creeper World game if there is one. We cannot help you with any of these goals unless you share your ideas.

[GoodMorning]

One final note - you say that 80% do not know how to use CRPL. This may be true, but Sorrontis does. So do I. planetfall is the current guru. There are further members who we could ask for their expertise.

If it is, as you say, a full rewrite, then it is not a change to CW3. It is a complete game.

Please understand that we are (or were) interested. Indeed, we have a vested interest in anything that could improve the games we spend so much time on. Your maps are appreciated.

However - dismissing the entire forum, asking for a full-game rewrite, and being seemingly unable to produce any form of evidence?

Were I to walk into a house of government and say "I've cracked cold fusion!", and then refuse to share details without my (claimed) research being funded, I would, at best, be ignored until I provided some evidence for my claim. With luck, there would be a short time when I would be taken seriously - this being when my proof could be easily presented. Exactly how long this period would last depends on the individual. Eventually, they would be considered irritating, if not actually troublesome - what happens then depends on where and how loud they are. It is foolish of them to expect to meet with the head of state or government without explaining their proposal to at least one other person.

You can tell where this is going, so suffice to say that your grace period is more or less over, and without something substantial...

Addendum:

Just because [we] are [customers], means nought to the [reasoning] [...]

If I understand correctly, the opinion of those who play these games enough to frequent the forum is irrelevant?

My [claimed value] is not for [you who play the game].

I'm trying to boil this down to the essentials quickly, rather than taking pages to get to "full rewrite". So if I have phrased this poorly, forgive me.

If, however, the latter paraphrased quote is a correct interpretation of your meaning, then there is little point you discussing your rewrite ideas on the forum, as it is frequented by the players. Instead, discuss maps here. (As a side note, it is really only players who read map descriptions.

And one final note: The words "with all due respect" have been used. This is, in my region, a polite way of being ambiguous about the precise level of respect due. I cannot speak for their intent here, but I had rephrased this post to avoid using them myself.

[Curtis hurst]

yes gm it is a hole new game out look note out look  , no but this one thing I need to get to them is worth way more than the weapons, the weapons are just egsamples of the bigger idea, the consept of my weaponry is realy soming ive known for years this perticuler idea can help them in a way thay would neaver beleave, I cant state this as its not very known in the gamming world I cant say anymore than this!  the ideas will realy work for this game all thay got to do is hear me out and ill stop simple as but I need them not you guys to lissen, I love this game I don't want to be you enimes, don't you guys think theres enough harshness in the world I live in Manchester England need I say anymore, I'm dislexik please don't read me wrong ive said I'm genuine guy wanting to help you unfountuantly hard I know it is to bealeve but you got to trust me!!!!!!!!!! and gm your scipts wont be wasted I'm dislexik and ive learnt more from them than I would of got from school! , you guys wont get me off here with a hand grenade I love this game to peaces, please guys I'm asking you to let me in and trust me my angsity don't help and dislexer gets my meesages across wrong, I realy do love this style of gaming and I know a way to improve it ten fold buts this idea is not for the general public!

[Sorrontis]

Wait... Manchester, England? Oh... You won't be going for a face-to-face then.

Well, in any case. You've got our ears, use them. There is (was?) someone here watching who has Virgil's ear. This was your chance to impress them.

[GoodMorning]

This forum is public, and if you do not want your ideas discussed on it, then this is the wrong place to talk about them.

We are happy to accept you, but what you have asked is not up to we on the forum.

Here, we all enjoy the games.

Sorrontis earlier offered personal assistance via PM, as a means to produce a proof-of-concept to show V. Having rejected this offer, there is little else we forumgoers can do for you.

Please, make maps, share ideas, and generally participate. But do not yell "cold fusion", again and again, without backing it up.

And finally, please do not post again in this thread until you have something to say which you have not said before, or it will be (at the least) locked.

[Curtis hurst]

so now we are bk to pole one I cant get hold of kc! , yes I love the help of you guys so far don't get me wrong way you got this community set is awesome love you guys and your help love this prospect of gaming too,  its not the weapons that matter to me is the idea thay are based on its not a public concern, and yes don't you guys worry I got some cool maps for you :-) working some stratagys out, but please you guys got understand this idea can help them create interesting games in the futcher its not the weapons I want to get across to them thay r just egsamples of this perticuler idea, I can not and will not talk about this perticuler idea but I got to speak to k,c this idea is not relivent to you guys but it will realy enhance on all the prospects of the game I need a email from k,c due to the technacalitys, I cant not stress enough how much thay need to listen to me, please do not hate me its kc I need to speak to its dammend important!!!!!!

[Keeper Decagon]

So let me get this straight: you don't want to share your ideas with the public, yet they pertain to a game that is played BY the public. Since we, as the public, play the game you so desperately want to upgrade, how doesn't that make us "relevant" to the ideas?

Also, technicalities? You can't type the words needed to describe the concept on a forum post, but you can do it on an email? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

You can stress all you want with your needing Virgil to listen to you, because at this point I don't see it happening at all. And if your idea is so "damned important", then make your own game, instead of making futile attempts at catching his attention on the forums whilst drawing the ire of those that wanted to help you but you simply dismissed.

Please, I urge you to take a moment to step back and rethink your approach to all of this before it's quite possibly too late.

[Curtis hurst]

ide love to make my own game that's what I'm on about I need to speak to k.c! the idea I have is none of your businesses but this idea needs egsamples witch in turn in hance this game ten fold it got nout to do with with the community! I wont explin any ferther, I need to speak to k,c, please virgl if you are reading this I need you to trust me I know this is realy weird but its going on to long and I know how important this perticuler idea will be to you, your community hates me due to me being ignored please I am a friendly guy bud need to speak to you ergently regards guppy guy :-)

[knucracker]

So I've been heads down for the last few weeks working on some new stuff.  Experimental things, throw away things, etc. Checking the forums in great detail isn't something I've done a lot of recently.  But, I did just read this thread. I've also checked my spam folder and sure enough I have an email  from you, Curtis.

After reading this thread and the email, I have one piece of advice for how to make an elevator pitch. Don't spend your 30 seconds talking about when you will be able to talk to me. It would be a far better use of your time and mine if you just said what you want to say. If you believe, and I'm convinced you do, that what you have is so special and unique that it must be communicated in a private fashion, then PM or email me and say what you want to say.... you've done both multiple times already, but for some reason insist on not saying anything other than, "when can I say something to you".

If you are interested in such sweeping changes that it means a "whole rewrite", then I'd very much encourage you to make your own game. If you don't know how to make your own game, then learn. If your experiences and game design skills are really great, then why let the bottleneck be other people? Don't rely on me or anybody else to make your own dreams become reality.

That's what I'm doing. I'm making games I want to play and I'm doing it myself.  I share the ride with the community and I'm glad to do so.  I have my own general and specific visions for what I want to do next and I do it bound by my own resources and abilities.  You should go try it.  Make a better version of Pong... or anything.

Lastly, I'm not personally 'ignoring' you. Your last email sat in a sea of spam messages in my spam folder. Even if it hadn't it was mixed in with a group of other messages that get sorted over time.  I'm just busy. I don't know how to put any other way.

Anyway, this topic has about run it's course. If you write another message go back and read your previous messages first to make sure you aren't repeating yourself. If you have something new to say, then by all means you are free to say it.  I'm not locking this thread, or banning you or anything like that. But try to either provide helpful or interesting content to the forums or consider waiting to post until you can.

[Curtis hurst]

this is one idea that's way bigger than me!

[Curtis hurst]

Cheak your support msgs for map editor ideas

[Karsten75]

OK, maybe we should try to make this clear one more time. Creeper World 3 is a completed product. No more development is ever envisaged. Only major, severe bugs will be corrected.^*

Creeper World 3 has been a finished product for several years now. A new game, Particle Fleet was developed since then over more than 3 years and released last year. That product is essentially feature complete as well (despite the hopes and wishes of several of us here).

Despite what you may perceive as the many shortcomings in Creeper World 3 and it's editor, players have made more than 4,500 maps, which have all, to some extent been downloaded by between 12,000 and 50+ other players.

It is extremely unlikely that the game will garner sufficiently more players to cost-justify any investment (development time) in the editor or in new feature set.

Development has moved on, and the Knuckle Cracker blog has shown that the new game will be called Creeper World 4. That may well take up the next 4 years of Virgil's life. Near the end of it, roughly 6 months or so before the game is release-ready, a small set of players may be invited to participate in a beta program. We carefully select those players on the basis of their posting histories and other criteria - all which have to meet the norm for an enthusiastic player that has been willing to contribute good ideas without trying to cram their opinions down Virgil's throat. They have to demonstrate good netiquette, temperament and appear easy to get along with, as well as having a respect for the intellectual property of others.


As to the size of Knuckle Cracker, there's only Virgil^**. he works from his home, subject to the normal demands on his time. He mainly writes games (or the parts of games) that interests him. It's that interest that motivates him. The game editor barely suffices to allow him to make custom levels and we're constantly amazed and impressed with the ingenuity of the community and to what lengths they take what is on offer to develop novel maps and styles.  So there's no "Support" other than Virgil reading the email addressed to that address, there's no marketing other than what Virgil can do, there's no office anywhere else in the world, there's no backup if he's out of the office, etc., etc.

Finally, read this for some insight about the difficulty for game developers around unsolicited ideas and the issues such suggestions may present them with.

1. How can I submit a video game idea to developers?

2. Are you at legal risk when you take unsolicited game ideas?

3. Unsolicited ideas in game development


*For example: In Creeper World 2 there was a bug that manifested itself after the save file became larger than a certain size - the bug could only manifest itself after players have played for a number of years. Then the player would lose their save file. That bug was fixed.

^** If you're wondering what my role here might be, it's along the "One man and a dog idea". There is an automated nuclear missile site. It's staff complement is one man and a dog. The man is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to bite the man if he ever attempts to touch the controls.