Anti-creeper limit (bug?)

[Loren Pechtel]

From this map:  http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=17432.0

There's a truly insane amount of ore here.  I found my CN unable to send out more than about 760 ac, though.  Upgrading the packet speed didn't change this, upgrading the path from collectors to relays didn't change this.  Dropping another CN onto the map helped but I still was producing ~1000 and sending out only ~900, all the sprayers being starved and the AC meters in the red.

[pawel345]

I tried to test it and indeed there is a problem, but it seems that you have to upgrade AC storage to make the CN send out more. It looks like the CN is requesting as much ore as it can have in storage, so at the same time the ore produced that is going on the network can't exceed the max CN AC storage, so even if your production potential is greater, the CN will not request more ore to be sent. That's why having 2 CN helped since their storage is larger. So AC storage upgrade also limits the AC generation^^

Edit: With a little more testing it seem sure that AC in storage+Ore on network=Max AC storage on the network.
So upgrading packet speed helps, A single CN without any packet speed upgrades can send around 150 AC/sec while having 200 AC storage max(depends on the proximity of the mines, testing was done on the map in the post above) and relay connections. With 20 packet speed upgrades it could supply around 400 AC/sec. So you probably can upgrade packet speed enough to make it send out as much as you can produce. But upgrading AC storage and landing more CN's is cheaper.

[Loren Pechtel]

I tried to test it and indeed there is a problem, but it seems that you have to upgrade AC storage to make the CN send out more. It looks like the CN is requesting as much ore as it can have in storage, so at the same time the ore produced that is going on the network can't exceed the max CN AC storage, so even if your production potential is greater, the CN will not request more ore to be sent. That's why having 2 CN helped since their storage is larger. So AC storage upgrade also limits the AC generation^^

Edit: With a little more testing it seem sure that AC in storage+Ore on network=Max AC storage on the network.
So upgrading packet speed helps, A single CN without any packet speed upgrades can send around 150 AC/sec while having 200 AC storage max(depends on the proximity of the mines, testing was done on the map in the post above) and relay connections. With 20 packet speed upgrades it could supply around 400 AC/sec. So you probably can upgrade packet speed enough to make it send out as much as you can produce. But upgrading AC storage and landing more CN's is cheaper.

I suspected something along these lines as this was a hard rule in the first version although it doesn't seem to be so much in this version.

However:

1)  Packet speed upgrades did not appear to change this limit, replacing collectors with relays did not appear to change this limit.  I didn't think of capacity, I have a feeling it wasn't even an option.  (While the default is unlimited upgrades of the first column items some people limit them.)

2)  Dropping the second CN *helped* but didn't solve the problem--I was still pushing only 90% of what I should have been able to yet if it were simply a limit on what one CN could send out that wouldn't have been an issue as I should have had about 30% to spare.

I'm wondering if it's a pathing issue with the mines that's the real culprit.  If one assumes one CN could only push 760 and ore goes to the closest non-full CN even if that CN is saturated you get the behavior I observed.  (In hindsight I should have dropped a second CN in the rich ore fields.)  I dropped the second CN near the front lines, it picked up the ore on that side of the map but all the original ore persisted in heading for the first CN that couldn't accept it.

[teknotiss]

I tried to test it and indeed there is a problem, but it seems that you have to upgrade AC storage to make the CN send out more. It looks like the CN is requesting as much ore as it can have in storage, so at the same time the ore produced that is going on the network can't exceed the max CN AC storage, so even if your production potential is greater, the CN will not request more ore to be sent. That's why having 2 CN helped since their storage is larger. So AC storage upgrade also limits the AC generation^^

Edit: With a little more testing it seem sure that AC in storage+Ore on network=Max AC storage on the network.
So upgrading packet speed helps, A single CN without any packet speed upgrades can send around 150 AC/sec while having 200 AC storage max(depends on the proximity of the mines, testing was done on the map in the post above) and relay connections. With 20 packet speed upgrades it could supply around 400 AC/sec. So you probably can upgrade packet speed enough to make it send out as much as you can produce. But upgrading AC storage and landing more CN's is cheaper.

I suspected something along these lines as this was a hard rule in the first version although it doesn't seem to be so much in this version.

However:

1)  Packet speed upgrades did not appear to change this limit, replacing collectors with relays did not appear to change this limit.  I didn't think of capacity, I have a feeling it wasn't even an option.  (While the default is unlimited upgrades of the first column items some people limit them.)

2)  Dropping the second CN *helped* but didn't solve the problem--I was still pushing only 90% of what I should have been able to yet if it were simply a limit on what one CN could send out that wouldn't have been an issue as I should have had about 30% to spare.

I'm wondering if it's a pathing issue with the mines that's the real culprit.  If one assumes one CN could only push 760 and ore goes to the closest non-full CN even if that CN is saturated you get the behavior I observed.  (In hindsight I should have dropped a second CN in the rich ore fields.)  I dropped the second CN near the front lines, it picked up the ore on that side of the map but all the original ore persisted in heading for the first CN that couldn't accept it.

its a combination of storage capacity (ie dispatching availability) and packet speed.
upgrading packet speed and capacity a lot should let you get to max production.
but i'll admit i put in a few more mines than i thought would be needed by AC enthusiasts ::)