Custom Map #4529: Meso golem control. By: builder17

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This topic is for discussion of map #4529: Meso golem control


Author: builder17
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#Experiemental Don't play this, if you don't like experiemental game modes More info in knucklecracker forum

[Builder17]

Ok, so this is kinda like PAC mode but you control golems from Meso creeper weaponised

To start map, unpause game and it shows simple instructions, if there is anything unclear please ask here and I try to answer

It's recommended to attack upper right area first, don't let snipers to shoot golems

Good strategy is to keep mouse pointer in safe creeper filled areas and when CRPL core stops spawning more golems
attack to weakest place, usually one with least snipers

Spoiler

Golems explode to creeper only if there is no creeper under these
Destroying mortars and sprayers makes sniper vulnurable to creeper
Forge has some upgrades in it, you can choose if you want destroy forge quickly or not

[close]

[Builder17]

Is it just me or does this map lags somewhat?

Any idea if scripts cause it?

[D0m0nik]

A little lag for me but nothing drastic.

Any idea to add more interaction to the gameplay? It feels very limited at the moment, just plase the mouse cursor and then sit back and wait to mover the cursor a bit.

[Builder17]

I am not sure, any suggestions?
Maybe something with left mouse button?

[stdout]

It would be nice if you could click on the golem to make him explode.

Also would be nice if you could click on a spot and that would make a cross hairs appear and then they will all walk toward that spot regardless of where your mouse was pointing.

I would LOVE to have the field tool like we have in PAC maps. That would lend much more interactivity to this.

[Portelly]

Thx for still producing PAC Map.

[GoodMorning]

Interesting concept.

There were many pauses of essential inactivity waiting for a Golem stock to build.

I will add to the pile, and suggest:
The option to shift the Golem emergence point to a captured PZ - capture by keeping Creeper there for one minute, or a Golem overlapping it for 20sec.
A "large Golem" which has more health and 2-5 "charges" of Creeper to drop. Only one may be produced at once, or one per producer.
The ability for this large one to soak up Creeper (perhaps only at base, or when on a PZ), gaining charges and/or health.

Click-for-explode would be very nice, especially if it blew only one of a stack per click. Also, please track the mouse more often - I lost a significant number of Golems to a long-aborted assault, as they had targeted it when produced, and could not be redirected. Perhaps stdout's crosshairs could be "picked up" and moved, with the Golems tracking it?

And a graphical tweak: Stop the legs on arrival at destination, restart them if the destination moves.

[GoodMorning]

Here are some scripts with click-to-pop and constant mouse tracking.

I also added a count-reporter (popup text on factory), but some golem-destructions do not register correctly (though this may be related to the regular script-recompiling I was doing). It might be worth looking into if you extend this further.

For a more complex interaction (field tools, settable target, multiple factories) a general selection script will be required, similar to PaC.

[Builder17]

Thanks, nice that you used some time for updating these scripts :)

[Loren Pechtel]

Slow.  You have to build up the maximum number of golems and then attack a point.  Most of the time is spent waiting for them.

Also, I did an experiment.  Blew the mortar in the north and left it running.  An hour and a quarter and I had won.

[Builder17]

Patience is a virtue?

But I agree it's too easy to win this, not sure when I am gonna do second map with this script  :-\

[toolforger]

Nope, patience is not a virtue, just one of several possible mindsets.
Though those who like being passive and just wait tend to play something that isn't a real-time strategy game like Creeper World.

To add to the pile of suggestions:

* If the level is built to amass golems and then send them off, make fewer golems with bigger creep payload.
* Update the golem's target every few seconds, not once and then have it mindlessly walk into doom just because the mouse happened to be in the wrong spot when the golem spawned (or reached its previous target). The current logic means you can't use the mouse, you can't even move it around to read the popups. Even better would be a system where a mouse click sets a waypoint that all golems will walk towards.

[Builder17]

* If the level is built to amass golems and then send them off, make fewer golems with bigger creep payload.
* Update the golem's target every few seconds, not once and then have it mindlessly walk into doom just because the mouse happened to be in the wrong spot when the golem spawned (or reached its previous target). The current logic means you can't use the mouse, you can't even move it around to read the popups. Even better would be a system where a mouse click sets a waypoint that all golems will walk towards.

Thanks for advice! :)

[toolforger]

I gave it another try and noticed something:

The player does not get a clear explanation what's making golems explode, and what's releasing their creeper and what isn't. (Sniper shots will not release the creeper, non-creepered ground will.)

It's a bit hard to see, since the explosions will obscure what's happening for a moment, and half a second later the situation will have changed.
In particular, it looks as if mortar shots kill golems, but in reality, it's that the shots clear the ground.

What's making things even harder to understand is that golem can walk over empty ground, the explosion happens only if the golem stops its movement on empty ground.

I.e. what's missing here is either an explanation, or an educational location (i.e. a sniper with nearby high ground so people will try to park on the high ground and see that oh, it's destroying the golem and the generated creeper will flow away, oh I guess high ground is my friend).
Similarly create some situation where there's low ground and high ground in mortar range, and make sure that the mortar can't fully clear the low ground but will regularly clear the high(er) ground. Give them a small hole with a nearby emitter just strong enough that the mortar won't clear is and golems are safe, and some high ground that's safe from a sniper but regularly hit by another mortar, and the educational effect should the there.

So, there *is* tactics beyond a mere "amass golems, then go in".
Not a lot of variation since you always have your golems walk in a straight line from the spawning point which severely restricts your angle of attack.

Hmm... direct control over golem explosions kind of defeats this aspect; may it's better to give players a way to control spawner position? That way, they can experiment with angles of attack, instead of restricting them to a radial-spokes-from-golem-generator mindset. (The mindset is fine, it's that the whole mission has to be designed around it and that offers too little variation to be interesting in the long run.)

Something totally different: I found another strategy, namely using the golems to distract the mortars so the emitter creep could advance elsewhere.
It was pretty effective, but creeper advancement is annoyingly slow. (Even more annoying was storming the top-left corner hill, because even when depowered, the snipers still kill the golems; you can advance them only after the normal creeper has killed at least enough that you can go in.)
It's more a problem of this particular scenario; e.g. some weak emitters that will flood any area when the suppressing fire is eliminated could speed up the time from "I got the opposition cleared in this spot" to "there's creeper so I can move further". (This might be unnecessary if players have more control over golem spawning point; not sure.)

Hope this gives you useful ideas :-)