This topic is for discussion of map #5173: 100 Spores Every 100 Seconds
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=5173)
Author: BermanPost
Size: 255x255
Desc:
EXPERT ONLY Brutal start, Brutal push foward, Brutal end game... followed by some small clean up. 100 Spores Every 100 Seconds with 100 payload (no grace period) 100 Runners with 100 payload per nest (3) popping out 1 per second Digitalis that pushes well past the land No-Fly zones ...Brutal
I am not even going to attempt this 1, I just wanted to say thanks for the honest description.
Cheers and Merry Christmas
Lag. And lots of it.
Probably related to a dense-packed network on the starting island.
Else, good once I had the start. I'm not good enough to hold it from the beginning, but I can rebuild a powergrid in less than 100 seconds. (I.e. I can power the beams, but not build them in the same wave-interval.
Well this is just thoroughly un-fun, lol.
I put in a good dozen or so different tries before noticing some AC where creeper definitely should've landed... not sure how to replicate it though. Regardless, there are some shenanigans going on and i've neither the time nor the patience to sort it out tonight. Hopefully someone else figures it out by the time I come back after the holidays.
Cheers!
My method:
Spoiler
Double line of Collectors and evenly spaced CNs.
Beams, as many as possible.
Delete the Collectors before the tower fires.
Finish charging beams from CNs until at least the middle-bottom of the island is carpeted.
Then build a new Collector powergrid, having stopped Beam resupply.
Turn the Beams back on, and they can recharge in time for the next wave. After that, all else follows.
it's hard map~
can't survive from first wave
SUPER HARD GAME with EXTREMELY TRICKY START! But with good logic!
Thank You for hard work! 10/10 from me! :)
Fun little map. I messed up the start too many times, but I got it. Now just a matter of knocking out a few things and then its over. TOmorrow mornng I'll get it done.
Great map, enjoyed this a lot. I use the GoodMorning method (I seem to be doing this a lot lately ;)).
Spoiler
I then made getting 3 guppys to each set of totems a priority. I used 4 berthas firing at 5 sec intervals to aid the taking of the 100 square islands and then used a while fleet of berthas with timed shots to disable and take out large areas of digitalis. The end game was quite easy.
Quote from: Fogmoz on December 23, 2017, 10:16:04 PM
Well this is just thoroughly un-fun, lol.
I put in a good dozen or so different tries before noticing some AC where creeper definitely should've landed... not sure how to replicate it though. Regardless, there are some shenanigans going on and i've neither the time nor the patience to sort it out tonight. Hopefully someone else figures it out by the time I come back after the holidays.
Cheers!
Basic math indicates that 100 spores with 100 payload each is 10000 levels of creeper. The cap for creeper is slightly over 2000 levels. Theoretically, it should be possible to build only one collecter and have insane levels of anticreeper due to the creeper-anticreeper flip. Haven't tried this map, personally it looks like I won't be able to complete it within the year. I really don't know.
Nope, it does not do the creeper-anticreeper flip. just tied it.
Build three or four Rectors instead, perhaps?
10000 < 2048 + 4096 + 4096, and so the Creeper will flip twice and not quite a third time. This leaves about 2K Creeper.
2048 = none to conversion point, 4096 = conversion (lower) to conversion (upper).
(Yes, those numbers aren't quite right, but are to make the point.)
Whereas three Reactors will get 3000-odd Creeper apiece, and so will each reach conversion density, but "only just".
Four could work even better, if the Spores distribute close to evenly.
Quote from: TheLongFellowPLAYER on December 27, 2017, 10:31:01 PM
Basic math indicates that 100 spores with 100 payload each is 10000 levels of creeper. The cap for creeper is slightly over 2000 levels.
Good idea, but creeper conversion starts at 2^31 =
2147M, which is far away from 100 x 100 =
10k.
Yes, but...
Internally, Creeper is an integer, but we see 'float' Creeper. This is done by simulating 1.0 float Creeper as 1000000 integer Creeper. So 2147 float Creeper is 2147M, in the units of CW2.
In integers, each of the 100 Spores is carrying 10000000 (10M, 10000K) Creeper.
Yes, maybe I mixed this with CW2 math. A wave of spores leads to a creeper hight of 133 on one of the little (3x3) squares. Next wave make 266, then 400 and then it is overflowing to the air area. You cannot reach 2147.
I'm not looking for overflow once it spreads, I'm looking for the Spores to dump so much Creeper in the same place, on the same frame, that it converts before having a chance to flow away.
So far, I've had imbalances in the Spore distribution... Six targets and the Creeper is spread too thin, one or two and it has enough to cancel all the AC from a conversion. Three to five give various amounts of Creeper, some as low as a few hundred. The amounts added up to about 2K Creeper leftover after conversions...
So, perhaps if you can game the RNG this is possible, but it's definitely not practical.
I finally managed it after many attempts :)
22 spores on a single point converted to 2147 anticreeper and 53 creeper, which makes 2095 anticreeper
Divided by 9 (3x3 square) makes -232,8 hight.
But you are right: I doesn't help very much.
I was not aware of this creeper-overflow glitch that turns creeper into anti-creeper.
The 'intended' strategy (which really just means the strategy I used to beat my map), as has been used and explained previously in this thread by other is;
Spoiler
understanding what the spore towers will and will not shoot at. if you destroy all of your completed buildings except the beams, prior to the spores being fired, they will not fire until you complete another building. You can use your Command Nodes to complete your spore defense, and once ready, build your energy production. Just make sure you can build up your energy production in time to reload the beams. Once your spore defense is up, take over the mini-islands, nullify the emitters, use those power zones to create a long connections with relays, assault the main enemy island, use some terps to get your nullifiers in range, then mop-up.
Enjoy.
It was a glitch ... in CW2 development.
By general acclaim among the beta testers, it was kept, then actively added to CW3.
Quote from: BermanPost on December 29, 2017, 08:03:25 PM
I was not aware of this creeper-overflow glitch that turns creeper into anti-creeper.
The 'intended' strategy (which really just means the strategy I used to beat my map), as has been used and explained previously in this thread by other is;
Spoiler
understanding what the spore towers will and will not shoot at. if you destroy all of your completed buildings except the beams, prior to the spores being fired, they will not fire until you complete another building. You can use your Command Nodes to complete your spore defense, and once ready, build your energy production. Just make sure you can build up your energy production in time to reload the beams. Once your spore defense is up, take over the mini-islands, nullify the emitters, use those power zones to create a long connections with relays, assault the main enemy island, use some terps to get your nullifiers in range, then mop-up.
Enjoy.
I used the same method, but
Spoiler
Instead of destroying things, I placed all three Command nodes in the center of the map, and built ~100 spores around them using only Command Node energy, then I moved them 3 rows deep on the bottom edge of the strip of land. I then "almost" built a field of 50 reactors and collectors; almost meaning I built them up to 47/50 and then disabled them. Once everything was in place, I enabled them so they all completed at once and let the spores loose. By the time the spores got within killing range, my energy production was fine and I was ramping up my ether production.
Quote from: GoodMorning on December 24, 2017, 12:28:37 AM
My method:
Spoiler
Double line of Collectors and evenly spaced CNs.
Beams, as many as possible.
Delete the Collectors before the tower fires.
Finish charging beams from CNs until at least the middle-bottom of the island is carpeted.
Then build a new Collector powergrid, having stopped Beam resupply.
Turn the Beams back on, and they can recharge in time for the next wave. After that, all else follows.
You could also
Spoiler
Build one Cannon and move it to a neutral place to bait the spores.
With this tactic you can directly rebuild your power network after first wave of spore attac.
Why didn't I think of that? It would have saved so much time and effort.
Oh nice, I had no idea there was a conversion glitch. However, I also had no idea that Spores were designed to not target something - I always assumed they either fired at units randomly or with some sort of basic hierarchical priority that included every player unit. Cool!
Sorry for being so late to this really cool map!
I wish I'd seen all the comments earlier about this being so difficult, because my solution for this map is so easy a beginner could do it, but it might be too boring for most. Anyway, hope it's helpful...
GoodMorning's tactic is a good one but I don't like to be bothered with pausing & stuff, and I don't mind doing a mission with a lot of afk-time. So my method won't break any records but here's what I did...
1) Build two rows of beams all the way across the map... using ONLY your CN's. (Yeah, it's faster with collectors but again, we're watching a TV show so extra building time is no big deal)
2) Spread your CN's out so they can be surrounded with reactors. Then set about 50-60 reactors to build all at once (this will take a while - 5-7 real-time minutes, depending how fast your computer is.
3) A few minutes before the reactors finish, sneak a CN to an empty island and build a blaster (as a distraction). Fly your CN back to finish building the reactors, while having a bit of fun flying your blaster to get the spores to fire on nothing.
4) Once the reactors are almost built (48-49 out of 50 or so), deactivate them until the spores fire one last time at your blaster. Then set them to build, and complete your powergrid.
This method is so easy it might even cross the line from safe to boring. But it's an easy win on the first try with no pausing or saving needed, so hey - it's got that going for it at least.
Thanks so much for this map! (I LOVE spore maps for some reason, dunno why). The 100 spores being destroyed in a nice fan pattern was cool! Great job! ;D ;D ;D
now, imagine this with an emitter - or two - on the CN island....