This topic is for discussion of map #286: Undiplomatic Immunity
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=286)
Author: planetfall
Size: 150x100
Desc:
[PF #10] Enemies that can be destroyed? We can't have that. Well, not much, anyway. #CRPL #CustomEnemy #Digitalis #Runners #NoSpores #TechLimits #PFSeries
Yay! Time to play!
PF: I think some of those Black Hole missiles are a little OP. I was making some pretty decent headway on assaulting the main island, and at about 29 minutes, a missile landed on one of my PCs with a Vortex so large that it wiped out the entire map. I had to start the map again from the beginning.
Quote from: TLMike on March 11, 2014, 11:44:37 PM
PF: I think some of those Black Hole missiles are a little OP. I was making some pretty decent headway on assaulting the main island, and at about 29 minutes, a missile landed on one of my PCs with a Vortex so large that it wiped out the entire map. I had to start the map again from the beginning.
First thing: The size of the black hole is determined by the number of units it consumes, the missiles themselves are not OP. The holes spawn from the missiles with a radius of something like 4-5 cells.
The moment you hear the singularity-weapon-sound and warning sound simultaneously, immediately pause, look for the black hole, and move units out of the area, and destroy immobile units near it. I had one land on my first run through the map (I won, but had to fix bugs and replay) and I waited a second or two after the missile landed. Even with that it destroyed a good portion of my forward base, but I was able to rebuild--that's what factories are for.
Though I'll try making them grow a bit slower to give players more time to react.
I hadn't realized that it had targeted a group of PCs I landed on the main island. And I had the game in 4x time. So you can imagine how surprised I was when every single thing on the map was gone in the blink of my eyes.
Quote from: planetfall on March 12, 2014, 12:21:08 AM
Quote from: TLMike on March 11, 2014, 11:44:37 PM
PF: I think some of those Black Hole missiles are a little OP. I was making some pretty decent headway on assaulting the main island, and at about 29 minutes, a missile landed on one of my PCs with a Vortex so large that it wiped out the entire map. I had to start the map again from the beginning.
First thing: The size of the black hole is determined by the number of units it consumes, the missiles themselves are not OP. The holes spawn from the missiles with a radius of something like 4-5 cells.
The moment you hear the singularity-weapon-sound and warning sound simultaneously, immediately pause, look for the black hole, and move units out of the area, and destroy immobile units near it. I had one land on my first run through the map (I won, but had to fix bugs and replay) and I waited a second or two after the missile landed. Even with that it destroyed a good portion of my forward base, but I was able to rebuild--that's what factories are for.
Though I'll try making them grow a bit slower to give players more time to react.
Don't beams take out the missiles?
Certainly they do. But, the missile in question targeted a PC in motion and was outside the range of my beams*.
*
I positioned in the beams in such a way that they did not target the Runners with shields, because I wanted their ammo to go toward hitting missiles, not runners.
Also! PFall: does the upgrade script for emitters eventually top-out, or can emitters actually end up emitting more than 2147 units of creeper? Or do they flip to AC?! That'd be fun :>
They do XD!
:o
We're gonna be seeing a couple really really low scores where people exploited that, aren't we?
Quote from: Flabort on March 12, 2014, 09:08:32 PM
:o
We're gonna be seeing a couple really really low scores where people exploited that, aren't we?
For the strongest emitter to get that powerful, the forge would have to cycle through all its settings 27 times, and by that point, each missile launcher would be firing 10 missiles at once. Runners would basically be fast enough to teleport to any bit of digitalis they liked, flamethrowers would have maxed range, shields would recharge almost instantly, and the corrupted forge would be receiving enough aether to make it all even worse even faster. Having to deal with all that, plus get a low score in the process, in exchange for massive amounts of useless AC, isn't really an "exploit."
Though a quick calculation tells me that, if the player doesn't destroy any totems, this would take only about 48 minutes of game time to occur.
Ok, I'm going to run it on 4x speed for 12 minutes... This should be interesting.
Killing the flamethrowers behind the corrupted forge was a royal pain in the tail. After several tries I was finally able to decoy the flamethowers enough to get a nullifier built on one of the PZs left from the missile launchers. (By flying in lots of cannons - on the successful attempt I redirected cannons in flight to the spots where other cannons were destroyed.)
Quote from: Katra on March 12, 2014, 11:38:50 PM
Killing the flamethrowers behind the corrupted forge was a royal pain in the tail. After several tries I was finally able to decoy the flamethowers enough to get a nullifier built on one of the PZs left from the missile launchers. (By flying in lots of cannons - on the successful attempt I redirected cannons in flight to the spots where other cannons were destroyed.)
Not sure exactly how you approached it, but basically the best course of action is to attack the forge right after destroying the central emitter and nest. If you let the forge stay around too long, the flamethrowers' range will get upgraded to the point you described. (I made this mistake while testing the map and did the exact same thing.)
Fantastic map. Finally the weekend gives me a chance to play. :D
I remember someone mentioning in some topic somewhere how quite often in CW3, it's often just about getting the right start in the map and thereafter it becomes rather straightforward. That's something I would also agree with in majority of cases.
But not with your maps, and especially with this one. The map has a somewhat trickyish start and then once you cross that void, it becomes a whole new challenge to firstly survive there without your units getting blown up, then to take out the flamethrowers presents its own challenge and that section in the top left with the AET and flamethrower runners. And not forgetting to mention the huge and constantly increasing threat from the missiles (especially the Dark Hole ones). All these factors made the map such that it wasn't just about getting the right start but also maintaining and ensuring you always made the right moves.
Again, really disappoints me to see a rating which isn't at least an 8. Probably because of the difficulty but again, I really feel that the way you made this map was quite genius.
Thanks a lot for these great maps PF. :)
In all honesty I don't even know WHERE and HOW to START
(Note:caps lock=emphasis not scream/shouting)
Quote from: tornado on March 19, 2014, 05:24:15 PM
In all honesty I don't even know WHERE and HOW to START
(Note:caps lock=emphasis not scream/shouting)
Spoiler
Start on the right strip of land near the Energy Pack. Also, as soon as the level starts (before your Command Node even lands), deploy the strafers AND bombers ASAP near that creeper emitter at the bottom making sure that creeper digitalis has no chance to reach the runner spawn nest thingy.
Quickly began to expand your network of collectors south and then using relays connect to the small island which has the nullifier tech. Then once collected, build a nullifier ASAP that will take out BOTH the emitter and runner nest.
And then meanwhile (if you have enough energy production) or after they've been nullified, begin to nullify the enemy totems and make sure you build yourself plenty of beams.
That all should get you started nicely.
Good Luck. :)
Thanks for the hint and the luck
I'm gonna need em!
I'd begin by grabbing that Energy Pack and by nullifying the Emitter and Runner Nest on the Starting Island. I'd also plant a Reactor on at least one of those Power Zones, and populate those three smaller islands with as many Beams as possible. After that, Reactors up and down the side of the island. Energy, man. Dat energy.
If you're going to rely on AC much, send a guppy over to the middle tech shrine place and build factories on the starting island. They use energy, but produce more ore than fully upgraded ore mines which means a lot of aether saved that can be put into other upgrades.
I have a suggestion for that maybe in a later map you code the factory's to respond to ore mine upgrades
Therefore creating insanely powerfull ore mines
This may sound op but when ever I use ac I always run out withing 10 seconds
Quote from: tornado on March 20, 2014, 11:28:05 AM
I have a suggestion for that maybe in a later map you code the factory's to respond to ore mine upgrades
Therefore creating insanely powerfull ore mines
This may sound op but when ever I use ac I always run out withing 10 seconds
Not currently possible. Time for me to pester Virgil about this...
However if you turn on both sides of the factory, as well as build a PZ generator on it, that should be enough for most attacks. It'll eat a ton of energy, but you can always build more reactors...
More power
You really had to make a reference to your first map
Which I ironclad canot win