It’s been a while since my last post…. things have really been popping at KC in the mean time. I’ve taken some time to implement some of the other objects that will be present in CW2. I generically call all of these objects ‘artifacts’. Right now there are 6 fundamental types:
[Scroll, Tech Cache, Bio Cache ] and [Gem, Fossil, Idol]
The first three are items that can’t be destroyed and must be collected before a map can complete. They will feature in the story missions similar to the way Artifacts, Techs, and Survival pods were used in CW1.
Scrolls are used to reveal parts of the story during the story missions. When collected, you will get more of the story revealed.
Tech Caches are used to unlock structures and weapons as the missions progress. When collected, you get something you didn’t previously have.
Bio Caches are similar to survival pods in CW1. They are genomic data that the former inhabitants of the world collected and preserved in an attempt to save something of their world’s bio diversity.
The second three items are purely collectible. They have a point total associated with them and once collected these points contribute to your overall score. These items may or may not be destroyed if evil Creeper touches them (it’s an option on each artifact). Additionally, some of these artifacts might be hidden. If they are hidden then you can’t tell there is an artifact in a cell unless you happen to dig there. Lastly, there will be quite a few of these items stuck around during the included missions in the game. One meta-goal of the game is to collect them all (across all missions) so you can have a full trophy room.
One last note before the screen shot. If you are paying attention you have noticed that I said you collect points when you get certain artifacts. This means that scores are no longer purely a function of mission completion time. Time is still a factor in the score, but the artifacts you collect also affect score. So you have to decide if it is worth it to spend extra time to get the artifacts on missions where you want a high score. And now there are two ways to compete per mission; best time and best score (they won’t always be the same!)
Here is the screen shot for this post. You can see a scroll, a bio cache, and two gems. You can also see the new status indicators at the top of the display that show energy, ore and collection/depletion rates. You may also notice the partially complete menu’s at the bottom of the display. This is still an area under construction. My mouse was hovering over one of the gem’s (you can’t see my mouse pointer in the screen shot). That’s why the item viewer box at the bottom of the display shows a gem.
Artifacts
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Byron Hargett, Knuckle Cracker. Knuckle Cracker said: All about Artifacts in CW2: http://goo.gl/IewK […]
so does that mean there will be multiple types of upgrades, such as an overall ore intake upgrade with a gem? also, first post!!!
The upgrades are still being worked on… but currently I don’t anticipate that gems will trigger upgrades. Gems are purely collectible and include a point value. If you don’t care about your trophy room and don’t care about high scores… then Gems are an optional part of the game (at least at this stage of development)
I had the same question as Mich.
Second post.
cool. will there be a way to tell if an artifact is vulnerable to creeper? also, will friendly creeper destroy artifacts?
Yeah, I think I will show this in the item viewer at the bottom of the display when you hover over the artifact.
Throw me the idol, and I’ll throw you the whip! 😀
Exactly…. what game where you are digging around would be complete without an indiana jones style idol?
Oh god, please have a option to make that build menu non-tabbed ^^ Having to hit just 1 button is hard enough on a touchpad 😛
Well….. this is tough. I need a more scalable way than always showing every unit button all of the time. As it is, I might end up with three or four tabs as new units come online. I can probably bind a key to the tabs so you don’t have to click…
The obvious solution here would be having the tabs on 1-5, then use qwert for selecting structure, unless you have other plans for those 😉
You got the unit menus working 🙂
but bio caches can’t be destroyed, right? makes them a bit different…
My bad… bio cache’s can be destroyed (like survival pods in CW1).
cool! i really like how the menu look like now but im sure it will look even neater when it is done.
I don’t get the point of bio-caches when they can’t be destroyed by creeper (as shown in your picture), then they’re just like artifacts.
I also don’t think it’s good to hide gems, as that wouldn’t make any difference compared to not hiding them, as you can see them by opening the map in the editor or just playing the level so you know where the gems are.
Yeah, bio cache’s should be destroyable… that’s just a silly oversight on my part. They are like “survival pods” in CW1 and their destruction results in a mission failure.
For custom maps, you could look at the mission in the map editor. So they make less sense in custom maps. For the missions in the game it’s a little harder…. though I expect someone will post a complete list of hidden artifacts on the forums. It still becomes a thing to complete, though, for anyone OCD enough to want to get all artifacts both hidden and not.
i want bio-caches to be non destroyable
its makes the game more fun 🙂
Have you though about having the ability to turn artifacts into ore or energy?
Well, not really. I don’t want artifacts to be a huge deal in the game…. just one more little thing to help spice things up a bit. The fundamental three artifacts will be used to progress the story, but the additional three are there to add additional small meta goals to missions.
That said, if I come up with some other good uses for the extra artifacts, rest assured I’ll reverse myself and make it happen 🙂
Not to be rude Virgil, but for people who can’t see small numbers or letters, did you ever think of increasing the font size just a little?
I can see it very well since I am still young, but for more older folks out there, the font may be a tad too small………
Other than that, Great Work!! I love all the elements in the screen shot thats happening!!!
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I may increase the fonts here and there, but the game can also be scaled. I play with the window maximized on a 1920×1200 screen. I’ve taken some efforts to help improve scaled performance in CW2 to make this a little more reasonable.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I was talking about the numbers next to the energy and ore bars with +- next to them, they seem a little small.
Remember to click on the image in the blog to get the full scale image (if you aren’t already). But even with that, those numbers are an 8 point pixel font. If I can maneuver them up to 10 point I will.
With the map maker you described is exalent, and as with the CW1 editor you could change background shading ect. but do you think it possible to change the colors of other items like the artifacts or even the blasters and repulsers. That would be NEETO! Or like with the CW1 you could insert your own image for the background, then would it be imposible to do the same with game objects?
There will be some level of customization for things… I’m not sure how much I’ll get it before the game is released, but I can always add more over time.
loved cw1 and cw2 looks great! cant wait for it to come out and if u need beta testers count me in!
If you can ever estimate when the game will be released plz post it
I’m definitely on the back half of the game and getting very close to feature complete. After that, I’ll need 4-6 weeks to work through the missions, story and art. So there is still a good change it could be released before the end of the year. But it could also spill over into the first couple of months of next year. It has to be ‘right’ before I release it, but I promise I”m going as fast as possible.
How exactly would you collect them?
In CW1 everything was linked and what not but it seems that in this game that you dig and open up paths…
Artifacts that have not “cost” are collected as soon as the underlying ground is dug up. If the artifact has a cost, then digging out the ground is only the first step. Once done, you have to click on the artifact and the number of packets equal to the cost have to be dispatched to the artifact before it will collect. So some artifacts could be very expensive (like 100 or so). You’d want to be careful when you collect them…
For the gems, is it possible to have different colors for different point values?
I have this thing where I like lots of variants.
There are:
Ruby
Emerald
Sapphire
Diamond
Each is worth more than the previous, and each cost more to dig out.
I forsee many people finishing the level save for one small emitter while they dig out the entire level looking for these 😛
is that a bad thing?
No, that would not be possible. You could not make beacons, meaning you would not be able to see far enough to dig.
I wonder this too. In the picture, there is a scroll somewhere that you have dug out, but it has not been collected. Will you have to build a building on it? If so, then that could become impossible when you have dug out underneath them. So what do you do?
You just have to click on it to start the collection process.
I also like having a ton of variants, options, …+
(I like a lot of (almost) everything)
I hate to do this. But you made typos for the plural vs the possessive of “caches” in the 3rd and 4th paragraph.
I’m sure it’s just because you’re tired and overworked, but I thought I’d point it out anyway! 🙂 No need to thank me.
Corrected…. silly mistake and definitely the result of blogging in between compiles and test runs 🙂
Very nice! I like the additional score options! 🙂
1. What do the white squares around the scroll and bio cache mean?
2. So why isn’t the cache being destroyed in the screenshot? It seems to be touched by the creeper….
3. So no more deficit? I’m surely gonna miss that! It’s probably the most valuable data when trying to play efficiently.
4. I’m also missing the total storage capacity. It used to say: 18/50 energy. Why is that?
5. I understood storage might become an upgrade. Will there also be an ore storage upgrade?
6. Will this item viewer also display %health and %ammo for military units? I’d love that…. Amount of packets requested would make it perfect. 😉
7. Well, almost perfect, because what I really miss in CW1 is unit data like: max. damage per shot, firing range and firing rate (expressed in numbers that is). Of course these numbers would change after applying an upgrade. The items viewer box seems to be the place for this info. Many TD games have something similar. Would that be possible? It would have saved me hours to calculate everything for CW1 (and also some of your time answering my detailed questions).
8. Will healing this time be implemented using energy?
A key for each individual unit type and action would even be better. Preferably user defined.
Fossils and Idols are actually a kind of gems with more points, only with a different shape if I understand everything correctly.
Good point Aurzel!
Thanks for all the info again Virgil! 🙂
1: The white squares indicate that the artifact it ready for collection (meaning you should click on it to start the collection process).
2: It was a mistake in the version of the game I took the screen shot it. It’s all been corrected since the shot was taken.
3: Yeah…. good ole deficit. The most misunderstood thing ever 🙂 I may find a way to put it back in.
4: Just an oversight in the redone menu’s. I’ll be fixing it soon.
5: I’m still debating if storage will be a research upgrade or an upgrade that requires you to build more things (like in CW1). I’ve also debated if the upgrade would affect both energy and ore or if there should be separate upgrades. But either way, there will be an ore storage upgrade.
6/7: Sounds like good ideas…. that and other things will be crammed in likely.
8: Healing is still “free” and time based currently. I did this in CW1 to limit perceived complexity. It still works out for CW2, so I’m not sure I’ll change it. But, I may experiment with it time permitting.
One note about fossils and idols. Right now they are just another kind of “Gem”. Just something to award points and something to fill out your trophy room. But…. as I was drifting off to sleep last night I thought about making collection of an Idol actually do something. Perhaps it would disturb a techo-god, or trigger an ancient booby trap and cause random tunnels to collapse in sections. This might normally be bad, but it could also halt enemy creeper if collected at the right time…. Anyway, just a random idea at this point.
Merci beaucoup!
That would be great; couldn’t live without it. I guess people will know it by now and otherwise it will give us something nice to talk about at the forums. By the way: it’s the second most understood. At the first place are men playing CW (by their spouses). 😀
Oh yeah! Happy man here! B-)
Ehm, the word ‘random’ makes me a bit nervous…. Especially with scores in mind. I hope I don’t have to replay a map dozens of times before I get lucky and the right tunnel collapses. Can’t you base this ‘randomness’ on a map hash, so it’s always the same blocks for the same map?
Don’t worry… I had the same thought. I don’t like really random events either (excepting for spores in CW1). If I did a feature like this (it’s just a thought right now) the cells that revert back to terrain would always be the same for a given mission.
maybe just have a couple of ‘random’ collapses in say, a 6X6 square
One last remark: please note that scores higher than the starting value (i.e. 10000) will be possible when map makers insert insane amounts of artifacts into their maps.
Indeed….
On the story missions and other built in missions I will personally use point artifacts sparingly. If a map is loaded up with diamonds, the 10,000 points you could optimally get from the time component of the score starts to become a minority. It doesn’t mean that people’s scores won’t still vary, they might just all be between 100,000 and 110,000 for example.
I think a good goal is that the total artifact points themselves not exceed 10,000 points. This always makes the time component a large portion of the score on a map.
But who knows…. the community of custom maps makers may conclude differently… and they might even be right.
You could also limit the total amount of points in the map editor to 10,000 points, just like you limit the number of upgrades to 6 in the CW1 editor.
the artifacts and upgrades are different.
there were only six applicable upgrades, so if you were to have 8 on a map, two would be left over
Could you make differnet types of maps like:
Survival see how long you can survive
Speed Run/Standard how fast you can elimminate all the emmiters
Campaign you have do to certin things like get artifacts and sutch
Different game types may show up…. but my primary focus is initially on core game play and the story missions. Some alternate goals are good ideas, though.
call me crazy but CW2 is starting to sound over the top and almost TOO big compared to CW1.
part of the beauty of CW1 was it’s simplicity and getting through… it seems CW2 is taking that, building upon it, and then adding more on to that and so on.
just saying.
i know a lot of people who agree
See comment #18 as an example. I’m always mindful about making things more complex without increasing game play.
These blog posts focus on individual aspects of the game and shine a light on them. They can make tiny aspects of the game seem really large. If I had a blog prior to releasing CW1, there would have been a similar post about artifacts and things and they might have seemed bigger when reading that post than they were in the final game.
Also, the map editor seems hard and complex… but won’t be used by 99% of the players. Most people will buy the game, play through it, play extra missions, and hopefully will have lots of fun doing just that. They won’t know one things about “forces” or care…. they’ll just zap the creeper and have fun doing it.
All that said, I am always very aware of arbitrary complexity. I’m cutting things out almost as fast as I put them in. This is the nature of game design and why it can take as long as it does to create a new game. I’m confident that the final game will maintain it’s “simple” edge for players while still providing a bit more variety than CW1. That’s my goal anyway…
Now that you mention 99% of the players, is that a number you gotten by comparing ammount of map authors with more then 3(?) maps to the ammount of purchases the game have?
Don’t read too much in the 99% figure. It’s very approximate. But… suffice it to say that the overwhelming majority of players of CW (and presumably CW2) don’t/won’t make and post maps. Map makers are a very elite group… but their efforts help a much larger population of players.
I’ve been thinking a little more about this. When storage and speed both become upgrades, this means I first have to dig for ore. Some maps might not contain that much and other maps might have their ore deep underground for certain reasons (I can think of some scenario’s). This means you would have to do without speed and storage for a long time, maybe even the complete map. Hence you lose the option of a quick blaster assault with some extra spare energy in store or you’re forced to work your way down a map without extra speed. I guess you see where I’m going: units please! I’m sure there will be enough other upgrades to spend me ore on (apart from the friendly creeper).
It has been a while since I talked about this, and upgrades are the last thing I do in games (so they still aren’t done)…
But my current plan is that you do not need ore to purchase upgrades. You only need research points. Research points you get by creating research buildings. Now I may not call them “research points” in the game, but that’s what I’ll call them for now.
This means that some maps could start with some number of research points already available to you. Other maps may start with zero. On the upgrade dialog you will have a whole laundry list of items you can choose to spend points on. Some much more expensive than others.
You can get additional points by building research buildings. Once built, the research building produces points (slowly) over time. Now, it takes some time and energy to build a research building. It also takes energy to continue to operate one. So you have to balance when you build these against your other energy needs…. but the sooner you build them, then more points you will get.
Before someone asks…. yes I may let artifacts have a “point cache” associated with them. So you could pick up say 5 research points if you dig up an idol (for instance).
If I do this, then upgrades become a nice little system that is similar to CW1, just slightly more “strategic” in its nature. But it does mean that ore now only has one purpose…. the production of friendly creeper. Maybe this is a good thing.
Lastly, this still doesn’t mean that it is a bad idea to have some upgrade buildings (like for speed or storage). I could still do that…. but the more I think about it the more it seems like all upgrades should just be part of the “research point” system. This might be the cleanest and most elegant solution.
Anyway, I’m just thinking… I’ll be starting the upgrade system in the next week or two so I’ll probably have more information at that point.
Ah, that changes things indeed. Sounds neat! 🙂
maybe the conversion missile… that was coming tight?… could be an upgrade to the regular missile launcher?
I really love CW and CW2 sounds exciting. I really am not trying to be like, “Yeah, artifacts and stuff-CAN I GET IT FOR FREE?”, but I’m just curious. If someone has previously purchased CW, will they get CW2 for a discounted price/free?
I see no point in giving discounts, it is after all an indie game and takes what profit it can get for the next instalment. But maby a way to “Earn” this theoretical discount would be to beat all the CW levels or other maps, under certin surcumstances like triple creeper, or no pausing, and even restricted unit and techs on the feild at a time.
Sounds intresting. Virgil your verdict on a CW competition for reduced/free version of CW2?
I really don’t see the point of making stuff free to the masses. if you look at the old pages before the release of cw1, then you see that virgil had a couple contests and stuff, but they were only for one person. hoever if you make something like beat everything and you get it free virgil is going to lose a whole lot of profit and may not have enough to devolupe his next game (if there is one).
I agree. There should not be a discount, and there should not be a contest. My opinion is that the only reason Virgil had the contest in the first place was to create publicity to let the world know, “Hey! I want you to check out my game!”. Since so many people are awaiting Creeper World 2, I see no reason to create more publicity.
I didn’t get Left 4 Dead 2 cheaper because I bought Left 4 Dead 1.
Well i would not dought Virgils ability to crate more games in the future, and no, he doesnt have to give out so many free versions to people who beat everything because I have. It would be more complicated than that, read the rest of my last post and it wont seem so stupid. With limited units placed on the feild and not being able to move the ship, finishing in a certin amount of time, extra waves of spores, maby even creeper that cant be killed. No I guess that would make the CW2 trivial. But dosn’t that make sense? A couple of over achivers that commit to playing creeper world and mastering it intirely geting a free taste of a new chalange. CW2
If you made it so that if you buy cw1, then you could by cw2 for free, it would make it so that you would have to lower the cost of cw2 so people wouldnt just buy 1 and get both at the same time. If you rase cw1’s price, then it wouldnt be fair for people to buy it then. This would cause a prediciment for Virgil so he couldnt make the next one, along with the series of algorithems to find a way to still earn a profit for the next.
Face it, no one will get it for free/discounted.
Or he won’t earn anymore money to make bigger and better games.
Besides, this game will be around 10/20$ give or take ten or so.
CW1 was only 10$ and see what you got out of that?
literary billions of maps = countless hours of replay value.
Virgil…… I’ve been watching your progress over the last few months…. the wait is painful, but I am seeing something grow from infancy into adulthood, and think this game will be amazing when it’s finally born 🙂 Keep up the good work, you defiitely have a customer here when it becomes available 🙂 Actually, three customers, since my wife and my son are also hopelessly addicted to Creeper World 🙂
I’m finally entering the home stretch for cw2. I’ve implemented some of the upgrades (and the upgrade system interface). For those that have followed the blog closely, they will know that this means I’m in the final stages.
As I’ve seen the game mature and take its more final form, I’ve started to get more and more pumped about it. I think players will have a real blast playing it, and I’m as excited as anyone to see it released!
About how long will it take if you are in the final stages