CW2 Unit Data Overview

UpperKEES · 62489

UpperKEES

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Reply #75 on: January 25, 2013, 11:45:30 pm
Corrections done, you are back  ;D

I sure am. 8)

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Shubhamkar

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Reply #76 on: February 15, 2013, 04:01:34 am
Can anyone explain weapon damage? I was trying this using experiment. I put a total of 20K creeper in one CELL. It took 5 shots for the blaster to destroy it. (I wasn't using any fields.) In another Cell I put 1000k creeper (without fields). It took 4 missiles (launcher shots) to destroy it.
So, is the destruction power I assumed is correct? That is, 4K per shot of blaster or 12K-16K per second (without any upgrades), and 250K-300K per missile (without upgrades).

Thank You.



ea3401

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Reply #77 on: February 15, 2013, 07:01:40 am
... 250K-300K per missile ...

Interesting test. I got 278k (2500k/9) per missile, independent from creeper density >500k.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 08:02:01 am by ea3401 »



Kithros

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Reply #78 on: February 15, 2013, 08:32:51 am
Can anyone explain weapon damage? I was trying this using experiment. I put a total of 20K creeper in one CELL. It took 5 shots for the blaster to destroy it. (I wasn't using any fields.) In another Cell I put 1000k creeper (without fields). It took 4 missiles (launcher shots) to destroy it.
So, is the destruction power I assumed is correct? That is, 4K per shot of blaster or 12K-16K per second (without any upgrades), and 250K-300K per missile (without upgrades).

Thank You.


Weapons both don't only damage one cell, nor do they damage every subcell equally within the subcells it does damage. To start with, the data in this chart is creeper density in subcells (ie. 1 cell is a 3x3 block of subcells, if you have an entire cell with 500k creeper, there is actually 4.5M creeper in total).

In the case of launchers, it does 500K damage to the centre subcell that the launcher hits, and 250K damage to some area surrounding that subcell (it reaches more than 1 cell however). In the case of blasters, I'm not sure on the exact numbers but I think it's effectively the same thing just with a smaller area and smaller damage (and faster fire rate of course).


EDIT: In the case of launchers, this (if i remember correctly) is the damage it does:
_YYYYY_
YYYYYYY
YYYYYYY
YYYXYYY
YYYYYYY
YYYYYYY
_YYYYY_

X will be the centre of a cell that the launcher targets (despite the missile actually hitting a specific subcell, launchers always target cells still - presumably an efficiency concern), and takes 500K damage.
Y takes 250K damage.

Add it up and there are 44 Ys, 44*250K + 500K = 11.5M total damage (if it does optimal damage), which is what the table shows.

EDIT AGAIN: I made a  small mistake in what areas the launcher hit, fixed it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 08:45:28 am by Kithros »



ea3401

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Reply #79 on: February 15, 2013, 08:53:57 am
Well explained. Blasters make the same pattern. Damage is 8k in the middle and 4k around.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:02:21 am by ea3401 »



UpperKEES

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Reply #80 on: February 15, 2013, 10:14:11 am
Yep, that's how it works. This also explains why it's more efficient to not let your launcher fire in the corner of a chamber, even if that cell contains the highest density. The area of effect will be much smaller.

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Grauniad

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Reply #81 on: February 15, 2013, 10:14:54 am

X will be the centre of a cell that the launcher targets (despite the missile actually hitting a specific subcell, launchers always target cells still - presumably an efficiency concern), and takes 500K damage.
Y takes 250K damage.

Add it up and there are 44 Ys, 44*250K + 500K = 11.5M total damage (if it does optimal damage), which is what the table shows.

EDIT AGAIN: I made a  small mistake in what areas the launcher hit, fixed it.

I think you are off with the total damage from a missile.  If I recall correctly, the missile does *maximum* 250K damage, with it "radiating" out from the central impact point if that cell does not have sufficient creeper. Regardless, they definitely do *not* do 11.5M damage per shot.

Edit: here is a response from Virgil during CW2 beta:

Taking on the question of launcher vs blaster:

Note:
The terminology I use for distance is Cell and Subcell.  A cell is 24x24 native pixels and a subcell is 8x8 native pixels.  A cell consists of 9 subcells.  Terrain always occupies cells.  Creeper and fields operate on a subcell basis.  Blasters fire at any subcells.  Launchers fire at the center subcell of cells.  Unit path finding is done from cell to cell with waypoints at the center of the cell.  Line of sight is done on a cell basis, with the exception of blasters which do subcell based LOS.

Now, that that's out of the way:
Blasters and Launchers both damage to a range of 4 subcells (3 on each side of the targeted subcell... for a total of 7 subcells wide).  When a blaster hits, it damages up to 4000 dense creeper.  When a missile from a launcher hits, it damages up to 250000 dense creeper.  So it is very true (like in CW1) that launchers are best deployed against a dense mass of creeper.  Attached is an image of missile damage the frame after it hit.  I have added the red subcell range indicator so you can see the range that is damaged. Also, just like in CW1, launchers target the deepest creeper in range and blasters target the closest.

Note that there is no explicit LOS done on creeper damage... however the limited range prevents damage on adjacent tunnels separated by terrain simply because the range isn't great enough.  However, think about what I said for Blaster targeting vs Launcher targeting and you well see that you can damage things around corners with blasters.

Launchers have one other great ability... they can target things around corners.  I use them quite often to target dense creeper near emitters even though my blasters aren't yet nearby.  For instance, you can sometimes dig a side tunnel next to a compressed creeper chamber, park a launcher there, then open a single terrain cell at the top of the chamber.  Your blasters (or shields, or repulsors) can hold the creeper back and your launchers can launch missiles back up the side tunnel, over, then down into the creeper abyss and finally reach their target creeper at the bottom of the chamber.  The only restriction on the missile is that it can never leave the firing range of the Launcher.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 10:19:21 am by Grauniad »

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UpperKEES

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Reply #82 on: February 15, 2013, 10:25:24 am
I think you are off with the total damage from a missile.  If I recall correctly, the missile does *maximum* 250K damage, with it "radiating" out from the central impact point if that cell does not have sufficient creeper. Regardless, they definitely do *not* do 11.5M damage per shot.

Really, they do. The max. damage of 250K is per 'subcell' (as Virgil describes it). The center subcell takes twice that damage as Kithros described. Try it.

What Virgil means with 'up to', is that it may do less damage to each subcell if it does not contain that much Creeper. This is why I named it 'max. damage', as it is only done under ideal circumstances (high density, max. splash range).

Edit: I'm a bit surprised this data is being doubted 2 years after date. ;) See a post by mthw2vc on the first page in which he describes the damage done per subcell. Also, if only 250K damage would be done per missile, the launcher would be the weakest weapon by far in terms of damage per second and damage per unit of energy (see bottom table).
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 10:36:24 am by UpperKEES »

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Shubhamkar

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Reply #83 on: February 17, 2013, 03:33:32 am
Can anyone explain weapon damage? I was trying this using experiment. I put a total of 20K creeper in one CELL. It took 5 shots for the blaster to destroy it. (I wasn't using any fields.) In another Cell I put 1000k creeper (without fields). It took 4 missiles (launcher shots) to destroy it.
So, is the destruction power I assumed is correct? That is, 4K per shot of blaster or 12K-16K per second (without any upgrades), and 250K-300K per missile (without upgrades).

Thank You.


Ok, Thanks a lot. Actually before posting this, I mistook density as creeper. I conducted some experiments with fields. Now, it has become clear to me.