Custom Map: Quagmire Quest 2: The Busted Bunker

AutoPost · 11718

AutoPost

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
    • Posts: 22342
on: December 06, 2010, 03:04:52 pm
This topic is for discussion of map: Quagmire Quest 2: The Busted Bunker


Author: UpperKEES

Desc:
Today you'll need some special purpose ammunition to be able to bust a heavily armored bunker. First however, you have to obtain the weapons to fire this ammo.

This map requires both thinking and fighting. A hard puzzle that allows you to use the game mechanics to your advantage in an unusual way.



UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 03:09:54 pm
Title:
Quagmire Quest 2: The Busted Bunker
Difficulty:
Expert Only
Creeper type:
Land only
Remarks:
Today you'll need some special purpose ammunition to be able to bust a heavily armored bunker. First however, you have to obtain the weapons to fire this ammo.

This map requires both thinking and fighting. A hard puzzle that allows you to use the game mechanics to your advantage in an unusual way. The sequence in which you execute your plan will determine whether you fail or succeed. Time is not important; it's all about escaping alive!

Description:
You just entered a military domain, currently occupied by the Creeper. The totems and available weapons are heavily guarded. Will it be possible to get out of here?

There's one bright side however: the two only survivors were able to lock themselves out with 4 techs and 2 blasters. Get these and you may be able to survive.

Unfortunately the bunker is made of plate steel and massive concrete, so you'll need a kind of ammunition that is able to penetrate through the walls.

Some advise:
- You can only blow the bunker when you don't blow your upgrades.
- Sometimes you have to be fast; sometimes you have to be patient.
- You may have to build something to break it down later on....
- You only have 8 weapons; lose one of them and you're stuck forever!
- This map is not about setting the best time; it's about being able to solve it.
- Have a look at the map comments for more tips and don't hesitate to ask for one yourself. I would appreciate it when you don't post hints and clues for this map yourself however! This is intended to be a hard puzzle that you probably won't solve on your first try. Spoilers will ruin the fun for others, so please demonstrate your intelligence by just posting your score. Thanks!

Download page:
Quagmire Quest 2: The Busted Bunker

Full size screen shot:


More maps:
See here for all Nice Jobs, Hard Art and Quagmire Quests 8)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 04:19:03 pm by UpperKEES »

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 04:25:12 pm
When needed I will provide hints, clues and/or tips for this map. I would really appreciate it when you don't post these yourself however, not even by using the spoiler button! This is intended to be a hard puzzle that you probably won't solve on your first try. Spoilers will ruin the fun for others, so please demonstrate your intelligence by just posting your score. Thanks! :)

When you are sure you are not able to solve it, but still like to do so, just ask and I will help you out by PM or in chat.

I will post one hint for sure within a few days, because that's something I already kind of state in the description anyway....

And let me say it once more: bridging is never required for any of my maps!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 06:21:35 pm by UpperKEES »

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


RichieRich

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 122
Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 07:24:23 pm
For me that is the best map you have done in ages.

Got all the stuff ok. Interesting the way the emitters are affected by the neighbouring fire. Then spent 15 odd minutes trying to figure out how to close things off to get up the top before the walls eroded. There is only one way to connect everything but many choices about what to do to hold off the 4 intensity emitters to allow the route. Figure I chose the wrong upgrades - at least that's what I am consoling myself with.

Top stuff though.

I do hope I figure it out and it doesnt end up like the farmer, sitting there in my custom maps unfinished.  :P



UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 08:16:44 pm
For me that is the best map you have done in ages.

Thanks a lot Richie! :) I'm very happy with the result myself as well, but of course you have to be able to appreciate a puzzle instead of a normal fight. Just the testing and tweaking took me 4 full days(!), so I'm glad it all works out as I hoped for.

Got all the stuff ok. Interesting the way the emitters are affected by the neighbouring fire. Then spent 15 odd minutes trying to figure out how to close things off to get up the top before the walls eroded. There is only one way to connect everything but many choices about what to do to hold off the 4 intensity emitters to allow the route. Figure I chose the wrong upgrades - at least that's what I am consoling myself with.

I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out eventually. Not helping out yet.... :P

Top stuff though.

I do hope I figure it out and it doesnt end up like the farmer, sitting there in my custom maps unfinished.  :P

The Farmer actually became a lot easier after the introduction of the packet filter, so you can always retry.... (for some reason I think you have to same problem on both these maps! ;))

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


Kapoios

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 67
Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 09:19:51 pm
Lovely map, Kees! Puzzle maps are my favourite and this is a really good one! I really enjoyed figuring it out tiny step by tiny step. Some very interesting and counterintuitive mechanics demonstrated there. The amount of work invested to handle all that is obvious and definitely worth it.

I also find the graphics very pretty. They are tidy and elegant without obscuring gameplay elements. I need to learn to work that photoshop magic too when I make another map.

Thank you very much for making this map. Please keep up the good work! We're all ooking forward to more novel ideas in the rest of the series!



UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 10:52:54 pm
Lovely map, Kees! Puzzle maps are my favourite and this is a really good one!

Thanks Kap! :) I'll try to make some more puzzles in this series, but it's a lot harder to come up with an original puzzle than with an original fighting map.

I really enjoyed figuring it out tiny step by tiny step. Some very interesting and counterintuitive mechanics demonstrated there. The amount of work invested to handle all that is obvious and definitely worth it.

True, but luckily I really enjoy creating them (hmmm, maybe except for the last 2 days of testing this one ;)).

I also find the graphics very pretty. They are tidy and elegant without obscuring gameplay elements. I need to learn to work that photoshop magic too when I make another map.

Thanks again. I know I can still improve some things, but when I notice some tiny flaws after 2-3 hours of managing pixels I don't always have to energy to start all over again. My perfectionism has its limits! ;D

Thank you very much for making this map. Please keep up the good work! We're all ooking forward to more novel ideas in the rest of the series!

You're welcome and please follow your own advise as well; I'd love to see a new (puzzle) map by you soon!

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


snowmaker (JM)

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 418
Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 11:33:07 pm
Fun puzzle... ugh, one mistake cost me a couple of minutes, oh well. The map was finely tuned with the various levels  ;) I look forward to the next one.



Colin

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 340
  • This stick figure lost his confirmation code to CW
Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 04:14:24 am
Great map KEES, I really liked the puzzle aspect behind this.

(My bad score is due to me having to pull a blaster back before
it died to let it regain some life before putting it back in).

To fight back the Creeper all you need is. . . What? Energy.
My maps CW1 are located here try out my MIS series.


UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 04:28:18 am
Fun puzzle... ugh, one mistake cost me a couple of minutes, oh well. The map was finely tuned with the various levels  ;) I look forward to the next one.

Merci bien. :) The next one will be something entirely different and will feature mechanics that were not expected to be applied within the next three months....  8)

Great map KEES, I really liked the puzzle aspect behind this.

(My bad score is due to me having to pull a blaster back before
it died to let it regain some life before putting it back in).

Thanks to you as well! Yeah, your blasters might take a little damage, but when you plan everything well you should be able to finish long before one dies on you.

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


Sqaz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 1212
Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 12:55:57 pm
Another beautiful map, great use of some game mechanics, but if you think a bit about the design the map itself is a bit of a blueprint of how to solve it.
This is probably because I made some puzzle-maps myself (and I tend to do this too) but well, I can't say too much without spoiling, but there is only one possible way to solve this one, and I don't mean possible by winning possibility (cause it's logic that there is only one solution) but more about those other things like weapon usage and placement.

Don't worry about that though, that's just me, I started to pay attention to it after I studied the map in the editor, it's still a nice puzzle and I'm sure a lot of people will spend sleepless nights searching the solution.

And of course the graphics are beautiful, and you can see you put a lot of time in this map.



UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 01:18:23 pm
Another beautiful map, great use of some game mechanics

Thanks Sqaz! :)

if you think a bit about the design the map itself is a bit of a blueprint of how to solve it.
This is probably because I made some puzzle-maps myself (and I tend to do this too) but well, I can't say too much without spoiling, but there is only one possible way to solve this one, and I don't mean possible by winning possibility (cause it's logic that there is only one solution) but more about those other things like weapon usage and placement.

Don't worry about that though, that's just me, I started to pay attention to it after I studied the map in the editor, it's still a nice puzzle and I'm sure a lot of people will spend sleepless nights searching the solution.

Yep, that's right, the map can only be solved in one way. I think that's inherent to puzzle maps (although some puzzles may allow you to build the required units in different places) and this is what makes puzzle maps different from 100% fighting maps that often allow for various ways to beat it. For this puzzle you need to place the right weapons at the right positions at the right moment(s) and your only 'freedom' is the build up of your energy network (plus speed & storage when required). It also helps to have read some game mechanics topics here at the forums of course, and not every player does visit these forum sections.

And of course the graphics are beautiful, and you can see you put a lot of time in this map.

Glad you like them!

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


Kapoios

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 67
Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 04:21:12 pm
Another beautiful map, great use of some game mechanics, but if you think a bit about the design the map itself is a bit of a blueprint of how to solve it.
This is probably because I made some puzzle-maps myself (and I tend to do this too) but well, I can't say too much without spoiling, but there is only one possible way to solve this one, and I don't mean possible by winning possibility (cause it's logic that there is only one solution) but more about those other things like weapon usage and placement.
This is a problem I've bumped into too when trying to design puzzles (not necessarily in CW). One wants their puzzle to have a unique solution, because they had a good idea, but then, to make that solution unique, they also make it easier to find because they've reduced the solution space so much, that it's easier to search. Basically, the solution becomes easier to find because nothing else could possibly work.  It's strange how more freedom and more possible solutions can actually make a puzzle harder sometimes. But, in my experience, with multiple solutions, solving tends to be less satisfying as it would often need some boring trial and error and it also doesn't give you the "I found it" feeling in the end.

In a confined solution space, the experienced puzzle solver can also use meta-elements like "why did the designer put that thing there?". It's hard to make those things shut up! I guess one could add red herrings, depending on the setting, but then you lose some of the simplicity and "cleanliness" you aimed for in the first place. And then, at the same time, you also want to make things not completely inaccessible to the less experienced. I never succeed in finding the perfect balance among all those things.



UpperKEES

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5525
  • The Creeper is getting deeper.... into me.
Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 04:42:59 pm
True, and in addition to that: it also depends on the kind of players you target. I don't like spending a couple of days on a map that can only be solved by 3-4 people that would solve it anyway, no matter how hard it is. Every game has its limitations and because CW only offers a very limited amount of unit type it's even harder in this game to come up with something entirely new.

I used to say in my overview topic: difficulty rating is Expert Only for the average player, because to real experts every CW map is beatable. Especially because I often post about game mechanics and very experienced players are the ones reading this. Of course I could have decided to keep a lot of info to myself and not report bugs and such just because I am going to release a few maps, but that way no one would learn, including myself (because others often post very valuable additions) and neither the game nor the new maps would improve.

Today I've been helping out several people in chat and by PM with a few hints, which is a good indication to me that the map is good fun for a wide range of players and that is exactly what I try to aim for. :)

My CW1 maps: downloads - overview
My CW2 maps: downloads - overview


RichieRich

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 122
Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 07:12:22 pm
I really enjoyed that.

TBH, I much prefer these kind of maps at the moment. I still play a lot of the custom maps but find that a lot really are not taxing at all as the techniques required to finish are pretty evident from the outset. That is not to say they are not good maps, just that I have played CW so much now that I am kind of hankering for CW2 at this stage and when I see maps like this, or Kapoios's recent puzzle or Dor's recent puzzle ( http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=3562&page= ) I really enjoy them.

Yes there is only one way to finsih this, but it was, for me, not the expected way and the play was very interesting. In reality though, there is usually only one way to finish most maps - more choices in the play but the finish is the same  ;) It is always seems in hindsight that the solution to any puzzle was obvious and for designers it's tricky to do good ones as the solution is evident from the start.

What I marvelled at with this map (especially when I found the solution) and Kapoios's map was the wonderful effort in making the maps.