Custom Map #2128: Operation incursion. By: Vertu

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This topic is for discussion of map #2128: Operation incursion


Author: Vertu
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[HeyHeyHey]

Awesome map! Haven't cracked the start yet but I'm having fun! amazing map!

[ikkonoishi]

Are the fighters supposed to do... anything?

[Greytusks]

Interesting map

Spoiler

Top right was my best start position for me. Miners with ERNs were the key.

[close]

[Karsten75]

Is there any reason whatsoever for the delay before one can start? Apart, of course, from player frustration.

[Greytusks]

Are the fighters supposed to do... anything?

Spoiler

They 'unarmed' by default until you manually arm them. It is a very important aspect of this map since ammo is very scarce at the start and you only want them to fire when they are in the position you want to start at. Cleverly switching them from deepest to closest depending on the situation is also pretty important at the start.

[close]

[Karsten75]

Anyone knows what the 3 units in the "custom" tab does? There are no Info pages for them in the wiki. :(

[Vertu]

The custom units are self explanatory when built / based on their names.
The deploy is indented as it's meant to look cool/be immersive.
I am happy the map is getting so much attention.

[Karsten75]

The custom units are self explanatory when built / based on their names.
The deploy is indented as it's meant to look cool/be immersive.
I am happy the map is getting so much attention.

Thank you, kind sir. That's really helpful.

[Niflthaena]

I had fun at the start, up until the point that I carved out enough space for the Lab, Factory, ERN portal, and Reactor. At that point the map switched from a brutal defense requiring careful planning to a slow slog through a massive field. There's nothing more to threaten the player - once they've got enough DPS to claim that much land, they've got enough DPS to overpower the entire map.

One option would be to ramp up the difficulty over time. I did notice that the emitters come online over the course of the first three minutes - it's a start, but that's barely enough time for the player to get a toehold. The difficulty's already at max in the blink of an eye. Ten to twenty minutes (and making the emitters a bit stronger to match that time) would more closely match the player's power curve.

In addition, I'd suggest making the map smaller, or making the objectives less painful to reach. Multiple options for starting areas is great, but that requires the map to be pretty big, and capturing a giant, homogenous plain is tedious when it comes with no extra challenges. Less spread-out totems, or possibly a Collect objective in the heart of one of the enemy clusters, would help give the player something to work towards rather than across.

Also, are the reactors truly necessary? They effectively trivialize the energy economy - once they get enough liftic to build an array of the small reactors, or the big one on its own, the player has enough energy to run everything forever. Energy miners and soylent towers become entirely redundant, and the core game concept of territory-as-resource evaporates. I'd take them out, or turn them way down.

[dj84722]

The custom units are self explanatory when built / based on their names.
The deploy is indented as it's meant to look cool/be immersive.
I am happy the map is getting so much attention.

Thank you, kind sir. That's really helpful.

The launcher is like a longer range multishot mortar that uses arg, slower fire rate but higher DPS, gets a huge range boost with an ERN in it

the v-rod gives 5 power
the v-reactor gives 50 power

[TrickyPlayer]

This is the kind of mission where in my opinion the ERN maker could be added: You can only build it once you get a decent foothold, and after that it only speeds up the slog. I got to around 25 minutes or something while still not having missile defence (couldn't be bothered) or blob defence (not impactful enough), and the skimmers were still being a massive pain as they like to stun all my cannons at once, though luckily those fighters in the air aren't affected so they can be used as temporary backup defence. After those 25 minutes and a single mayor skimmer assault, there really won't be anything happening other than a slow slog so yeah, add the ERN maker. I liked the idea a lot though.

[Vertu]

This is the kind of mission where in my opinion the ERN maker could be added: You can only build it once you get a decent foothold, and after that it only speeds up the slog. I got to around 25 minutes or something while still not having missile defence (couldn't be bothered) or blob defence (not impactful enough), and the skimmers were still being a massive pain as they like to stun all my cannons at once, though luckily those fighters in the air aren't affected so they can be used as temporary backup defence. After those 25 minutes and a single mayor skimmer assault, there really won't be anything happening other than a slow slog so yeah, add the ERN maker. I liked the idea a lot though.

I found shields to be the way to go for this in counter to early skimmers, I am enjoying the feedback provided. A single missile launcher can be helpful early on same with a sniper positioned towards the blob nest, no need for too much more until you get more established though I do like the ERN maker idea, will consider for next time but at the same time, the Summoner could be thought of as an ERN maker in terms of speeding the slog once established. In the future I will keep in mind these ideas.

[Vertu]

I had fun at the start, up until the point that I carved out enough space for the Lab, Factory, ERN portal, and Reactor. At that point the map switched from a brutal defense requiring careful planning to a slow slog through a massive field. There's nothing more to threaten the player - once they've got enough DPS to claim that much land, they've got enough DPS to overpower the entire map.

One option would be to ramp up the difficulty over time. I did notice that the emitters come online over the course of the first three minutes - it's a start, but that's barely enough time for the player to get a toehold. The difficulty's already at max in the blink of an eye. Ten to twenty minutes (and making the emitters a bit stronger to match that time) would more closely match the player's power curve.

In addition, I'd suggest making the map smaller, or making the objectives less painful to reach. Multiple options for starting areas is great, but that requires the map to be pretty big, and capturing a giant, homogenous plain is tedious when it comes with no extra challenges. Less spread-out totems, or possibly a Collect objective in the heart of one of the enemy clusters, would help give the player something to work towards rather than across.

Also, are the reactors truly necessary? They effectively trivialize the energy economy - once they get enough liftic to build an array of the small reactors, or the big one on its own, the player has enough energy to run everything forever. Energy miners and soylent towers become entirely redundant, and the core game concept of territory-as-resource evaporates. I'd take them out, or turn them way down.

A part of this mission was a kind of tutorial for the fighters and Summoner related units, to showcase them in establishing a hold and then on a more "typical" roll. Seeing how much people seem to be liking this idea I will make more maps related to it along with more units of it's category. The V-rods were meant to be an early energy solution if you are having trouble but I do understand what you are coming at. I feel like adding the resource fabricators would make that a bit better.

[dj84722]

The fighters are probably my favorite unit of yours and i like summoner able to produce battle stations on other maps, though fighters cause a lot of lag when 5 or more are moving at the same time, the same can be said about some of you other units firing also like the WMS and SGML
I made a few adjustments for my own copy of the air unit cpack, summoner: increased ammo request rate and unit caps.   Battle station: increased ammo capacity   Fighter: added a 10 hover height option for refueling without having to terp at low heights

Seeing how the hover height setting works inspired me to add variable settings to a structure from another cpack rather than have 3-5 different cpacks for each setting ( i already had 2, small and large radius for 0 terrain height and was thinking about adding 2 more for 10 height)
I took the M.O.A.B. from The Aquarium 1161 (A bomb that destroys everything including terrain in a large radius) and made a terp bomb with variable blast radius, terrain height and special terrain

Edit: you have a misspelling on the fighter controls, you put Deapest instead of Deepest