Custom Map #5797: [Christmas Time!] - Simple. By: Grabz

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This topic is for discussion of map #5797: [Christmas Time!] - Simple


Author: Grabz
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#CRPL You can only build Collectors (and some others). Each time you build a Collector, there is a chance that it will turn into a random unit. Special thanks to HordeofTribbles for the concept and GoodMorning for a pretty good script idea.

[yum-forum]

I have no words to describe the delight of fantastic and exciting rally to victory!  :)

I remember very interesting games of Kalek where, too, unpredictably emerged various items.
But in Your case game more interesting because random unit appear when I build a Collectors!
And I can regulate whether I want to test my luck!
Each time - intrigue: a good will be unit or bad!  8)
I named this game - GLM (Grabz Luckiness Mode)  ;)

Big thanks for great creative work!

P.S. And as I understood each game is individual and unique?

[Grabz]

P.S. And as I understood each game is individual and unique?

By design, random rolls in this game are always seeded, meaning they're always the same.

To make it more random I waste some rolls depending on the collector's position, which means that unless you put collectors in the same exact places, you should get a different game.

[hbarudi]

Nice map, built collectors all over the map and got very cheap units.
Even building on a powerzone does this and I got a bertha in a powerzone, also 2 powerzone guppies and a powerzone anticreeper bomber. The amount of ore mines I got were enough to fill the whole map with anticreeper. My save makes for an impossibly difficult play as creeper (pac) map.

[toolforger]

Well, what can I say - I got an inhibitor right in the north.
Which was a mixed blessing, because it was a 250-every-3-seconds thing that I could barely keep under control, until finally I had enough mortars.

It's really a game of luck, which isn't exactly what I like personally. Interesting enough to try it once, but not the type of game I'll want to try again.

[yum-forum]

By Your opinion Sleeper mode also game of luck?

[daniels220]

@yum-forum, I know I'm not the original target of this question, but no, I don't consider Sleeper mode a game of luck at all. Telanir did an amazing job of making the Sleeper feel like an intelligent enemy. I assume some of its actions are partially random, but they don't feel that way—they feel like a human opponent, who is not robotically perfect (and therefore may ignore good opportunities, leave holes in defense, etc.) but overall takes most actions for an obvious reason. And, I've never felt like my overall ability to win or even my time was particularly dependent on luck—on most maps the Sleeper doesn't rush you too fast, so its advance can be treated like a spore tower—have beams (and some mortars and digitalis-targeted cannons) up in time and you'll be fine as long as you manage your energy well, keep building reactors, etc.

This map, on the other hand, I agree is mostly luck in some sense—certainly skill is needed to manage what luck sends you, but the difference between "good luck" and "bad luck" absolutely swamps a significant difference in skill. (Imagine getting an enemy emitter before your first weapon, or a gem really early, or the difference between having useful units on PZs vs. not...) So, like toolforger, I find this to be a wonderful concept, but overall I'm not feeling too interested in playing another map like this. Some thoughts:

I find it a bit too random. Like, yes, real random events sometimes end up with loooong strings of the same value in a row...but it isn't much fun to have a dozen sprayers and no source of AC, or any of a bunch of other annoying scenarios. It might make sense to do some subtle hinting/biasing of the results:

• The more you have of a unit, the less likely it is to spawn (with different rolloffs for different units)
• The less AC you have, the less likely AC-using units are to spawn
• Collectors placed close together are more likely to spawn something
• Relays are less likely to spawn close to existing relays
• Perhaps—the longer the game goes on, the more likely you are to get powerful units (Berthas, totems, etc.).
• But perhaps also, the longer the game goes on, the more likely you are to get enemy units, and more dangerous ones.
• Even more generally—but perhaps straying too far from the original concept?—skewed probabilities that reflect normal player development—more PCs than snipers early on, stuff like that.

There's a bunch of tedious micro-management early on to Disable/Disconnect any weapons that appear so they don't starve you of energy. Perhaps the roulette mode could start at 1:00, or start with a very low probability and ramp up, or start introducing weapons/making them at all probable then, etc. etc. etc. Or, if it would be possible to have weapons spawn disabled, that would work too.

Power zones...are useful, no question, I think I was getting 90% of my energy from PZ reactors by the end, but they're tedious to make use of because most of the time, building a collector on them just gets you a collector, and the units I anyway find most useful there are immobile, so must be built in place. Personally I would prefer some or all of:

• Very high chance of spawning something rather than remaining a collector
• Rarely or never a mobile unit/weapon (I can just move those!)
• Nor a gem, ore mine, totem or other unit that gets no benefit from the PZ but occupies it
• Moderately boosted chance of Bertha, because because. ;D

Thinking about it overall, I'd be more interested in playing a game of "serendipity" than "roulette"...a game where the spawns are random on a micro-scale, but orderly on a large scale, such that the majority of spawns are either "why thank you, I needed that!" or "OH GOD WHY" (when you get an enemy unit in just the wrong spot), with very few "ugh, another (sprayer/bomber I can't use | beam/sniper I don't need | etc)".

[yum-forum]

Thank You for very detailed and useful comment!  :)

P.S. I hope that better when in CW3 existing big variety of different types maps...

[Grabz]

It's only natural that a mode like this is not for everybody - after all Creeper World games are far from being games of chance, they don't attract people who are into that sort of thing.

I think the comment from daniels220 about potential changes to the mode is just trying to make an RNG mode be less RNG, which I feel like is missing the point. Don't force yourself to enjoy it, even leave a low rating if you loathe to play it - that's the only way we mapmakers can determine whether the majority of players are enjoying a concept or not. Yum's GRG maps have been getting pretty high ratings so I can only assume I've done something right - perhaps you just want something different.

As for the Sleeper, I agree that while Sleeper is inherently random, it's predictably random, like an AI opponent. It makes choices based on what it perceives. I'd never say my little CRPL script is anywhere near on par with the Sleeper ;)

[yum-forum]

How to explain briefly why I so like Grabz scripts...

Joke from me:

CW3 is like well known film "TITANIC"
and GRG inside CW3 - like film "TITANIC" but if it will be with sharks...  :D

[daniels220]

Grabz: I had a feeling I was missing your point, anyway. Fair enough—I definitely am not the sort to particularly enjoy randomness. I do feel like there's room for a point to be made with something in between—like I said, a mode that could better be described as "serendipity" than "roulette". But frankly I'm not motivated enough to make it myself (it is of course much harder than simple randomness), so I'll stick with playing the vast array of non-random maps already available...