Custom Map #373: Nuhages N009. By: Nuhages

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This topic is for discussion of map #373: Nuhages N009


Author: Nuhages
Size: 448x252

Desc:
Have Fun. Feel free to comment and rate. N009 is: Probably too long. Probably to heavy (4600 particles max +ships) Probably unbalanced (someone will find a way to rush). Again have fun :p.

[chwooly]

I find maps like this not fun, There is too much building needed. It is tiring to play when you have so much particles that you have to micromanage just to get a foot hold. While I have liked all the new changes made to the game until a way is implemented to build without all the mouse back and forth maps like this will get very low scores from me.

[exy]

I found a way to rush. ;P

Spoiler

The short of it is that despite all of the progenitor's defenses, it is possible (barely, just barely; took quite a few restarts) for the HQ to spawn in and down the progenitor by itself.

Hitting the doppels early makes them run away as they're building.  You can kill-lock the ships if they can never get past an exposed command station.  And while the timing on the emitter is sound, differences in its spread can buy the HQ just barely enough time to finish lathing it and live.  Past that, between the fields and the constantly exploding ships, it's possible to lathe the progenitor in peace.  IF you can survive to that point.

After that, it's an exercise, left to the reader, in quickly collecting all of the items.

[close]

Seriously though, had fun with the map.  As a counterpoint, I enjoy maps like this.  To note, I found it didn't require advanced fleet tactics, nor any micromanagement.  Managed to play through comfortably without pausing; didn't feel like like I had to babysit my ships.  Of course that doesn't mean I could just build and ignore them.  On the contrary, I find little to enjoy about maps that are nothing but waiting: waiting for your fleet to build, waiting to move into range, waiting for emitters to be lathed.  I felt your map did a good job of being challenging without being overwhelming.  Specifically...

I like how the flip emitters paired with the enemy lathes caused a kind of back-and-forth.  I enjoyed how I had to put at least some effort into defending them, as opposed to flip-and-forget.

I particularly enjoyed how limited certain things were.  I liked how having so few amp gems meant I had to consider how I wanted to spend them, as opposed to just dumping them on everything.  I liked how having such a limited range from the energy mines meant I had to consider where I wanted to put my tankers, and how I wanted that little energy spent.  I liked how having only 8 omnis meant I had to consider how many I wanted, and where, as opposed to just throwing omnis everywhere until the enemy drowns in them.

In that regard, I found your map especially well balanced, in that it provided for interesting decisions regarding what strategy I would use.

Overall, an interesting and enjoyable map.  Well done.

AAR

Spoiler

Warped in at the center emitter.  Started by building the Cruisers, DLathes, and when I had the energy, the Marauders.  Also built 2 omnis to snag the 2 amp gems, used on Mine.Prod and D.Struc.  Using the struc wall as cover, had my HQ and DLathes quickly lathe the enstruc'd mines and emitters.  Then, focused my fleet to lathe each of the 2 open emitters in turn.  Then started building the rest of my fleet as I consolidated and grabbed the rest of the pickups.  The next 2 gems were spent on Omni Reactors/Cannons.

Somewhere in there, I tried rushing up the center with the HQ and some omnis, trying to grab a foothold with the flip emitters.  An error, I found, as resistance was much heavier than expected and I decided to pull back.  Conceded the entire center line to the particulate.

My omnis, for most of the early game, were placed at the top of the bottom-center landmasses, with one on each of the squares, to shoot down particles and repair thr struc.  Also supporting the center hole were my 3 Wolfs, as their higher energy requirements meant I didn't want them drawing from my tankers.  My Tridents, for most of the game, were deployed inside the struc wall beside the mines, using their lathes to repair it (as mobility is critical for offensive lathes).

Quickly split my fleet to take the 2 corner mines, as particulate was rather thin.  After that, the S edge of the map was largely ignored, as struc was enough to keep the mines alive, and a static HQ could clean up any particles that drifted in towards the center.  Then, my fleet regrouped on the midwest ship spawner, taking the mine and using it a staging ground against the center line.  After gaining a foothold, I moved my the left half of my omnis up, and used them with the rest of my fleet to walk the line over to the center, eventually taking the all of the left flip emitters, as well as the 2 center.  I found the core emitter still too strong to assault, so I had the bulk of my fleet hold just below at the center of the map, while I split off my 2 DLathes.

(I will note that, as usual, I had Particle Beams turned off for most of this.  The plasma was annoying but, P.Beams are enormous energy hogs, triply so when multiple ships are drawing from one tanker. I will also note that I left some Cruisers near the left mine to shoot down enemy ships/dopple, and as an omni can cover 3 flip emitters from one of the blocks, 1 or 2 of them is enough to reflip anything that gets reclaimed.  Once a center section is firmly controlled, the enemy lathes pose little threat.)

After hitting the leftmost emitter, I had my 2 DLathes slip up the second land block, using it as a shield against the particulate so I could position them to start taking out the emitters along the top edge of the map.  After the first 2 were destroyed, creating a safe area, I diverted 4 omnis and the Microtank to assist.  This force worked its way across the top, downing all of the left-hand structures, stopping just short of the center.

It was during this time that I used similar tactics as before to take the right hand flip emitters, and switched Omni Cannons to Emitter Control.  I eventually used it to chain all of my flip emitters together, shooting their particulate at the center structures.  (In hindsight, I might've used the Rock Burner for a bit to smooth out their zigzag path, that not so much of it would get caught on the corners.)  It was using the left particle fountain as cover that I repositioned some of my fleet to support my DLathes as they started lathing from the left.  This effort proved sufficient to take down the center emitter, after which the progenitor was quick to fall as well.

[close]

[svartmes]

This map had the potential to be an epic battle for those of us who likes a challenge and there's some very good mapdesign in here (I really like the way you handled the flipemitters), I just wish you hadn't put that progenitor in.
In fact, I'd advise all mapmakers against using progenitors at all. They're just too easy to exploit in PF, much more so then in CW3.

[Nuhages]

Hey All, thanks for the reviews :)

@ chwooly : you just met a typical Nuhages map  ;D ;D ;D , I know some of you don't apreciate this kind of maps.
Take a look to spoils you'll get the plan. Generaly speaking my mpas are very defensive, mooving forward is what I plan to NOT let you do. :o

@ svartmes : I could have posted a copie without the progen but  it's a 2 hour game.
I thaught no one could rush it (I tried alot never got it as exy did).
As you played CW3 you probably did some of my maps.  I'm still learning how to play with those particles  ;D . I'll give you an epic battle some day.

@ exy: Bravo for the rush. I tried it never got it. (how many tries?)
I'm happy to see you like my maps, as I said I'm still learning on PF.

Again thank you for the reviews and comments, mappers need reviews.

BTW: Nuhages N010 is out  ;D ;D

[exy]

@Nuhages

At least a dozen tries.  Probably quite a bit more, but to be fair most of it was in quicksave/loading; either testing out various strategies, or manipulating key events. Honestly, it's the kind of thing that shouldn't really be worried about during map creation, as it needs everything to go exactly right, and for the player to know what they're doing, and be dedicated to making it work.  It's not a general case.

The key points that needed to be manipulated in my strategy were:

1.  Your HQ needs to survive lathing the core emitter, and with at least 1 cannon, preferably both, still intact.  Same for the reactors.  This was the trickiest part, and included a significant number of quickloads trying to get the RNG to fire enough of the emitter's particles off to the side instead of towards the HQ.  Keeping as far away as possible, combined with this and maybe a bit of dodging to spread damage across as much armor as possible, it's possible for the HQ to come out crippled instead of dead.  This is important because...

2.  The 2 enemy ships need to be stuck in a kill-loop.  Otherwise, they'll start firing missiles at you and particulate will start drifting into the rear of the HQ.  Too much of a resource drain to be practical. 

Spoiler

I tried to avoid this whole issue at first by 'juggling' my HQ over the above landmass, keeping the lathe peeking out so it could still hit the progenitor.  This was taking an insane amount of micromanagement and advancing time step-by-step, so it was to my great relief when I noticed the enemy explosions were pushing all the particulate out of threat-range.  Still, it could be useful as a breather if the HQ is getting overwhelmed for some reason.

[close]

To this end, I had my cannons set to 'ships' so they wouldn't waste shots on other stuff, and I temporarily turned build off to ensure they had enough energy.  Had to quickload once or twice during this time when they got built anyways.

Assuming the doppels ran away when they get hit at the very start, the fields should be enough to push away their shots and any particulate, allowing the HQ to camp right below the progenitor.


So, like I said, not really something a player will stumble upon unless they're specifically looking for it.

[chwooly]

Hey All, thanks for the reviews :)

@ chwooly : you just met a typical Nuhages map  ;D ;D ;D , I know some of you don't apreciate this kind of maps.
Take a look to spoils you'll get the plan. Generaly speaking my mpas are very defensive, mooving forward is what I plan to NOT let you do. :o

Your attitude is going to make me work harder to appreciate your map style. Thanks for making them and for understanding that they are not for everyone.

Cheers

[Nuhages]

@exy

Your playing skills are way beyond mine. I'm very happy to see it was not just a 3 time restart, you got chalenged it makes me feel .. Happy.

@chwooly
Mapping on PF/CW3 is awsome 'cause the comunity is. People who are willing to take time to say anything constructive on the forum are to be taken with consideration.

I'll go back to the next one now  ;D ;D