Custom Map #3842: map 145 BIGPAC-2 (Runner Bickford). By: yum234

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This topic is for discussion of map #3842: map 145 BIGPAC-2 (Runner Bickford)


Author: yum234
Size: 220x170

Desc:
Runner GOD-09(Game On Desire of alfanugan) #PlayAsCreeper #GoodLuck

[yum-forum]

Map is very big&hard, epic and consist of many ideas.

Spoiler

Runner BickFord. You can use helps from Ranner Bickford Effect in several area of map. But BickFord Effect possible with some level (different in each area) of Creeper!
Berthas. The most annoying is 2 Berthas (with auto-target). That is why important using BickFord Effect kill it.
Runners. By controlling of growth of digital network You can send runners in some points where snipers kill it and You can create a bridge.
Beam. A lot of strong beams did not permit You simply go through the map. In some case (in the beginning) after some logical action You can use Spore Towers. But in limited area. Then Spore Tower technic will be useful in the end of game.
PZ Berthas. Very annoying. To go through the map You need to kill most part of this Berthas in Bickford area.
Creeper "knife". From some level of  Creeper You can use technology of "creeper knife" to cut voides. It is very attractive using of field. Like cut butter by knife!  :)
Tactic. In this game very important right tactics.

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P.S. I created this map within one week. In result it was so much hard that I simplified it...  ;)

[D0m0nik]

I am afraid a challening start coupled with lag is making this very unejoyable to play, I have to quit for now  :(

Edit: I have just noticed something that might make it easier.

Spoiler

There are more initial emitters than what is obvious in the top corner, have a careful look around!

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[mzimmer74]

I have to agree with Doom.  The map looks great and I'd love to play it but there is no way my system can handle this.  It's not a terrible system (can play most AAA games) but the lag here is just too much.  Makes me sad because I'd really like to give it a shot.

I don't know exactly what is causing all the lag, but if I had to guess I'd say it's the sheer amount of packets that have to be sent over the network.  "Best path" algorithms tend to be fairly processor intensive and you have TONS of things needing to be calculated each frame.  Here's something that I've thought about that might help on a map like this.  Given the size of the map, I wonder if it might be more efficient in terms of computational power to break the network into smaller pieces that are not connected.  Then, power up each section with guppies that come from PZs in a well defended portion of the base.  That would make the overall map less connected and each "map" within the map would be smaller.  That should theoretically make the best path algorithm require less computation.  Again, I've not tried this, but I do wonder if it would help.

Anyway, like I said, the map looks great but I won't be able to play it. :(

[stdout]

Same lag issues here.

yum: on the PAC maps the best thing you can do to limit lag is to limit yourself to a smaller map. Keep it under 100x100 and there shouldn't be any lag issues.

I am very very much looking forward to more PAC maps from you! Just make them smaller. :)

[yum-forum]

So many unsuccessful tries from players whom I very respect!  :(
It is very very pity because strategically map is unusual and interesting. At least for me.

Maybe one more possibility: wrong starting point for playing?

My computer is very old (about 8 years old, 433MHz, very slow, I almost can not play with speed 2X), but for this map lag was very small (in the beginning then became better).

Interesting opinion from player who finished this game. Please, comment!

So many efforts within one week to create big epic map...  :'(

[GoodMorning]

I would wonder about the lag being due to the Abraxis.crpl script, but I believe that we've already heard from the builder of it.

I'm having a consistent 1/4th speed on 1x. I would ask for fewer units, but it may be too hard to balance.

The game clock is now pushing 2h, so clearly I lose sight of the goal when I have this much time to micromanage. I'll likely finish it, but not now.

[MasterBata]

I finished it despite the terrible lag... took me over 2hrs despite official time being 46 minutes. Talk about slow motion :)
I think map is not that hard,

Spoiler

since there are several "safe" starting points

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I think lag is caused by something in the script. When I beat the map I got the "claim victory" message and all lag was gone (the game was still running in the background)

edit: Also, the game speed did not change at all during play. It was the same slo-mo until I finished it.

[yum-forum]

I think lag is caused by something in the script. When I beat the map I got the "claim victory" message and all lag was gone (the game was still running in the background)

Yes! The same for me. After finishing game in the background game became very very quick!

[Durkon]

First of nice map.

As mentioned before my game speed was also around 1/4th-1/5th speed on 1x. It was a bit unconvenient so I probably won't try to get a better time soon.
The start was relatively hard but after getting established it was just a matter of being patient enough and choosing the right targets.
Thats why I belive that many people didn't finish the map because of lag issues.

Keep up the good work and I hope to enjoy another PAC map soon

[stdout]

Until the game end condition is met, the script is doing a lot of work. The main bottlenecks are that each frame it is checking to see if all the items are destroyed (Triggering victory) and it's also checking to see if it should start rebuilding any destroyed item, and if yes, can it rebuild it? (Is the ground clear of active digitalis and creeper?).

These checks all happen for each square of the map, each frame, and this is why huge maps are so extremely laggy.

One change I made long ago, and I don't know if it's in your recent version or not, is to make it so it only does those checks once every 20 frames or so, instead of every single frame. That helped a little bit at the time. You might experiment with that.

[NNR_Alex]

You said you wanted to hear from people that beat it so here I am.  I post my scores under 'Xander' now instead of my forum name.

Anyways The lag issues were a Killer, I have no idea how many hours it took me in real time, but if the 46 score was over 2 hours I think it's safe to say I put in 4-5 on my time.

This map was more frustrating than anything and I beat it simply because I knew it could be beaten.

Simply put, the defenses were a pain in the ass.  PZ berthas, normal berthas, PZ beams, snipers, and nullifiers that were built the second I claimed anything at the start.  Maybe it was the lag that made it so frustrating, because it took even longer to make progress and it would quickly be destroyed.

Spoiler

I did figure out a few things, mostly that aside from a few spots to the south spores are useless, too many pz beams that will destroy them as soon as they are spawned.

Just make a massive linked emitter and use the fact that after what 600 density?  It will just flood into the void.  Combine that with taking note of I think 4 emitters that are elsewhere on the map and will never be nullified.  Link up enough emitters to get 1000 or so power and let it just pump for a while to overrun the defenses.  I have no idea which set of berthas to take out first though, I'm not sure which ones were the most persistent in slowing me down.  Runners helped a little at the start but overall not too much for me.

[close]

I could do the map faster, if only for the fact that I know how to not waste my time, but I don't wanna put in that many real time hours again right now.

BTW something I don't understand, I'm not familiar with the term.  What is the "BickFord Effect?"

[yum-forum]

First of nice map.

As mentioned before my game speed was also around 1/4th-1/5th speed on 1x. It was a bit unconvenient so I probably won't try to get a better time soon.
The start was relatively hard but after getting established it was just a matter of being patient enough and choosing the right targets.
Thats why I belive that many people didn't finish the map because of lag issues.

Keep up the good work and I hope to enjoy another PAC map soon

Thank You for so kind comment!  Especially valuable that it is Your first post in our Forum! You are welcome! :)

About lag: I created new version of game (BICKFORD PAC) with the same scenario, not so hard and without lag! Please, enjoy! :) 

[yum-forum]

BTW something I don't understand, I'm not familiar with the term.  What is the "BickFord Effect?"

Thank You for comments!  :)

Bickford Effect for non-PAC maps explained for instance here:
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=20944
But in case of PAC map it means that You can (with enough Creeper level) start get a lot of Creeper in some point when snipers killing Runners. And it helps in game. In this map 4 Bickford area.

[alfanugan]

This map had lots of lag for me as well but I still enjoyed beating it, thanks!