Ground rules

[Clean0nion]

I'd like to propose some ground rules for map submissions to Colonial Space. As far as I can see they're quite easy to follow but I know that some (perhaps quite a lot) of people will have issues with them. Also, there's no real way of enforcing these rules, and those who are likely to see this probably aren't the people who should be most aware.
Anyway. To the ground rules.

1. No maps intended solely for achievement getting. They don't add to the game and there is no reward for getting achievements. If you have to use a cheat-map to get achievements, you don't deserve them.

2. No unfinished maps. I shouldn't have to explain this one.

3. No duplicate maps. This applies to old users as well as new! Stewbasic's MirrorImage for example, though I know that there are many more. If you have to upload another version of your map then I can only assume that the first version had some flaw - and per rule 2, CS is for finished maps only. Unless you're a new player with not as much skill as others, or your map is simple (eg no CRPL) then always check with another player about possible bugs or errors in your judgement of relative difficulty. Just because it seems that you've finished a project does not mean it is done! Bugtest extensively, with other players if possible (CS is not a good place to do this) then upload to CS once you are 100% sure that it is done and bug-free. If people ask for an easy version of your map then it is their fault for not being able to complete it.

Of course, feel free to disagree or add this to the pile of 'Deleted topics by Clean0nion'.

[Karsten75]

Now all you have to do is to get all the Steam map jockeys to read and agree to this...  ;D

There is also the small issue of community moderation / map reporting. Just don't organize a gang of vigilantes.

[pawel345]

The problem with this is idea is simple:

1) hard to judge what is a duplicate map, sometimes the point is that the maps are very similar yet different

2) it's hard to judge what is an unfinished map - by let's say MadMags standards all my maps would be unfinished :P

3) we have no power over the map's uploaded and no way to enforce them and KC map policy will not change anyway.

I agree about the maps for achievement's that should belong to the DMD. I made a few DMD to get achievements, just don't add a name on them and you get your achievement and don't spam other people with useless maps.

[Clean0nion]

1. "This is an easier version of my other map, per request"
That's a duplicate map.

2. "This is what my map is, I might finish it someday"
That's an unfinished map.

If it's unfinished or duplicate, it's generally because you know that it is. If I upload a map, then you upload a very very similar map, that's not a duplicate. Unless it was planned, in which case we are aware that it is a duplicate.

3. Yep. That's the main issue. And what Karsten said.


You've tolerated Clean0nion for 700 posts!

[Annonymus]

I believe that if a map is finished or not, duplicate or not is to judge by the mapmaker, if he thinks it still needs some work done or he just copied another map, he should not upload it, while if for him the map is finished but someone else says there should be more work done or he just had the same idea than someone else and therefore made a very similar map he shouldn't hesitate to upload it, if not for other reasons.

[Flabort]

I think that if users request an easy version and the author is willing to comply, then as long as there is an immediately obvious difference in difficulty and average time, it is not a duplicate map; it is an "Alternate Version" map.
A duplicate map would be one that got uploaded twice without change; say if another user copies it into their world builder to copy scripts out of it, then later notices a map they haven't finalized and uploaded. I agree with the spirit of this rule, but not the letter.


However, I agree with the letter AND spirit of the No Achievement Farming Maps rule, and No Unfinished Maps.

[teknotiss]

i too agree with the sentiments, but you need to understand this is essentially unenforceable.
if V had retained the CW2 system then us map moderators (probably) would prevent rubbish achievement maps but we just have to go by community moderation as is.
and since i suspect most steam users won't visit the KC fora i think you may be preaching to the converted.
as for the duplicate/hard/easy versions, unless it is exactly the same as a previous map i would prefer to allow users to sub easy/hard/altered maps, some players may want to play them, and bypassing in CS them is hardly a chore. if you really don't like them then hide those maps and you don't need to scroll past them.
i dislike people adding limitations on others fun when there's no rudeness or hostility involved in said fun, leave them to it unless it actually affects other peoples fun.
V might want to add a bit of text about achievements being achieved best in the DMD? does the DMD need unit/enemies counts increased to allow this? i don't use steam for CW3 (or anything anymore) or know what the achievements are.

[Clean0nion]

If you're not using Steam, you don't have the latest version.

Anyway, you raise a good point. We have no actual enforceable way of promoting these rules and I am acutely aware that the converted are indeed the ones being preached to.
So, if we were to have map moderators with the ability to remove a map, they'd be able to remove unfinished maps and farming maps but might have no power against duplicate maps. And there's always the issue of into whom to place your trust but as far as I'm aware CW2 has proven that that's possible.
Assuming that system will never be implemented, we still have the report button. And, as proven by the Case of Hatsune Miku, that button actually works. And that's good enough as far as I can see, especially as (I assume) it's the Converted who'll be the reporters.

[Karsten75]

i too agree with the sentiments, but you need to understand this is essentially unenforceable.
if V had retained the CW2 system then us map moderators (probably) would prevent rubbish achievement maps but we just have to go by community moderation as is.

Since I have insight into the map moderation system for CW3, you want to take a wild guess how many people actually reported that map? (Hint: Not enough to auo-redact it.)  Community moderation is now wider than a few selected moderators, but surprisingly little used.

And to anticipate your objection:

Inappropriate: not suitable or proper in the circumstances.

If you're not using Steam, you don't have the latest version.

Where did you get that nugget of misinformation from? The Steam and non-Steam versions are both at 2.01. Nor do I understand how it is relevant to this discussion. Don't bother to enlighten me, I don't particularly care to know.

[J]

Since I have insight into the map moderation system for CW3, you want to take a wild guess how many people actually reported that map? (Hint: Not enough to auo-redact it.)

I thought auto-redact was 3 reports. So my guess is 2.

[teknotiss]

i too agree with the sentiments, but you need to understand this is essentially unenforceable.
if V had retained the CW2 system then us map moderators (probably) would prevent rubbish achievement maps but we just have to go by community moderation as is.

Since I have insight into the map moderation system for CW3, you want to take a wild guess how many people actually reported that map? (Hint: Not enough to auo-redact it.)  Community moderation is now wider than a few selected moderators, but surprisingly little used.

And to anticipate your objection:

Inappropriate: not suitable or proper in the circumstances.

two assumptions there though dude  ::)
one, that i care enough to report this map, i don't, i do agree with the sentiments, but i just skip those maps since i don't want to play them and i think they are inevitable given the achievements. which i also don't care about. ;)
and:
two, that'd i'd object to your reply  :D

let me clarify myself, i think this is unenforcable in the sense of stopping people uploading achievement maps to CS, but if dudes want to report them they should do so. but i still think a message in steam suggesting DMD use for these things is a better bet for a result, "carrot" is always preferable to "stick" in training mammals, sometimes "stick" is required but only when necessary! (note: the "stick" i refer to is a metaphorical one, i never use sticks to train mammals, except any human i'm training to fight with a staff  ::), generally "voice" is most effective, but i can't go "command" all steam users now can i?)

[knucracker]

The auto redaction limit is currently 3.  I manually moved a couple maps into the redacted state last night.
As for the rules, they will drift slowly over time.  Currently, I don't want to see a flurry of 'achievement' maps.  There is nothing intrinsically wrong with these maps, I just don't want them to show up in any kind of volume in Colonial Space.  People are free to share them on the forums if they prefer.

A year from now if a map shows up with little play value and is designed to award achievements, then I will probably look the other way.  But in these early days I want to bias maps towards game oriented scenarios.  That is probably best for most of the audience right now, and that's the driving reason for this "know it when I see it" approach.

[Helper]

... and that's the driving reason for this "know it when I see it" approach.

Hey Potter - good to see the guidance.

I saw this earlier and was more confused than usual:
<<

If you make a map you wish to share with others, please use the built-in feature of the game to upload the map to Colonial Space. If your map is a work-in-progress, then feel free to post it here for comments.

Thank you.

>>

It appears as though Karsten75 is telling everyone to upload any kind of map they want. If that is supposed to be some kind of Moderator/Site Admin guidance, it should be specifically identified as such to lend it the weight of your imprimatur.

Further, if that is some kind of Moderator/Site Admin guidance, are there any announcements you want to make about site management?
;)
H

[Asbestos]

I think maps that are the original should be uploaded to CS, and maps that are updated should be posted here on the forums.
For example:
AutoPost: Original Map #1337

commenter098: Hey, can I have the easy version? This is too hard.

mapmaker1234: Okay, here.
attached: originalmapv2

commenter098: Thanks!

[Clean0nion]

I think maps that are the original should be uploaded to CS, and maps that are updated should be posted here on the forums.
For example:
AutoPost: Original Map #1337

commenter098: Hey, can I have the easy version? This is too hard.

mapmaker1234: Okay, here.
attached: originalmapv2

commenter098: Thanks!

You're full of excellent ideas.