Possible bug with destroyed forge?

[4xC]

This whole debate on whether to allow multiple forges by default is, at this point, obviously not going to go anywhere.

The forge is too distinguishable in its own wright to be cloned on the same battlefield, and too valuable to build dangerously close to enemy lines.

It would not serve any good purpose to build more than one anyway.

[Shrike30]

... except some people are saying they are getting theirs blown up.  Whether that's from spores or unchecked creeper growth, I couldn't tell you, but it's apparently a bit of an issue for some players... the "good purpose" would be investing some extra resources to protect your upgrades.

The thing "only" costs 100 packets.  Berthas cost more, and aren't exactly unique.  Many other structures cost only somewhat less (reactors, terps?), and are used by the dozens.  If totems simply sent their Aether to the nearest Forge, and there was a global pool of Aether for spending on upgrades (meaning it wouldn't matter which Forge you had selected when you bought an upgrade), this would solve the issue for everyone: those of us who don't get our forges blown up would go on building 1, and those who do could build an extra to solve that issue.

[miquelfire]

One reason I would want multiple forges is if I built my first on in a bad spot, and needed to move it for some reason.

[Grayzzur]

Pro gaming tip #47: Don't build expensive titan units in a "bad spot."

[miquelfire]

What if it was a good spot at first, but later found out I was wrong?

[Grayzzur]

Take that new found knowledge with you on your next play through!

[Kharnellius]

Yeah, I agree about the need to simply defend your Forge well.  I normally put two beams and at least on cannon near it even if it's completely safe.  You. Just. Never. Know.

Also, the reason a second Forge wouldn't help is because the Aether actually becomes the medium that the data is stored on...hence why you need to collect the Aether and why you have to do it on each level (and why you can't bring it with you).  I assume the Command Centers just don't have the necessary abilities or space to store the Aether properly and hence why you need a new one each time you land on a planet.  (Now if we could only find a way to add rocket boosters to the Forge :P)

Making a second Forge would now suddenly double your Aether stores and it would actually double the research time needed if you built a second one. :(

EDIT:  Going along with the library analogy...  Building a second Forge is like building a second library that is empty.  It needs to be filled with books, but those books are made of Aether.

[4xC]

And those books in the 2nd one would lower the amount in the first one, and it would minimize the learning quality of the first one and the second would not be any better.

[Annonymus]

I think it's ok as it is now but if you'd want to create forge-backups I think the best solution is to make a new building which can't act as a forge but only backup the upgrades you made and after your forge gets destroyed you need to build a second one to get the uppgrades again.
On maps where the forge is intended to be able to be lostyou could then just disable that building.

[Imposter]

I'm pretty sure if you pause to think for a minute, you'll be able to figure out the rationale.

If a library is locked, the books are still in there, but you just an't read them. Unlock the library and you have access to all the books again. Burn the library down and .. well, not so much. You have to rebuild the library and then reacquire the books.

I think this reasoning is flawed. These aren't books, they are weapons of war. If a factory manufactures tanks, and the factory burns down, the tanks won't suddenly stop working, you just won't be able to build new ones. If anything, the weapons that had the upgrades should keep their same effectiveness, but newly made blasters and such should start with no upgrades. Same goes for the armory analogy, you can't suddenly not use the weapons that were already outside the armory when it got destroyed. You may run out of ammo for them, but these particular blasters and such use the same ammo that the no upgrade blasters use. Locking or burning down a library has no affect on the books that were already checked out!

Edit: Infact, having some books checked out, would make it easier to make new copies of that book than it would to start from scratch. Having upgraded blasters on around, should make it easier to regain that technology, than starting from scratch. So at the very least, there should be a price decrease for upgrades, and already built weapons should retain their upgraders.

[Otterbear]

There ever only was one Library of Alexandria. Treat your Forge as such.

Just to play the devil's advocate here....I've never been to the library of Alexandria(I know it was destroyed), or Congress, yet I can still build a house, and use a weapon, create one if necessary, and do many other "advances". Just because a tire factory burns down, we don't have to re-invent the wheel.

Having two forges does create a lot of problems. IE: Do you split the aether going to each one? Which one gets priority? ect...
Removing the penalty of loosing ALL tech advances to a destroyed forge seems to be the appropriate correction. Having the tech advances removed UNTIL the forge is reconstructed seems to be a better solution.IMO.

"One reason I would want multiple forges is if I built my first on in a bad spot, and needed to move it for some reason."

This is another good reason that the removal of all tech advances seems a bad idea. Newer maps are getting increasingly difficult and not being able to relocate a valuable asset such as the forge is a harsh penalty. It seriously reduces options when playing a map. Hours can be lost do to unforeseen map designer "surprises". Not a scenario I look forward to. :(

[Godsbrother]

Personally I'm fine with the way the forge operates now.  Regardless of any real world analogy it is what it is.  I'm ok with changes that make tedious things easier(adding in esc to enter/exit main menu, or new keybinds for example).  But some things have to make the game challenging, and one of those is the need to carefully place your forge and protect it, or face the consequences.  Also such a fundamental change could invalidate some times.

That being said...  Perhaps giving the ability to map makers to allow forges to relocate just like weapons would be cool.  This could be on/off from the start, changed by a crpl event, or added in as a very expensive aether upgrade.

[4xC]

That would be a nice CRPL custom setting.

In the real game, I don't think mobility in the either of the first 2 titans would be necessary. With great power comes great need to stay where you are and make use of it the best way possible as such.

[Nephthys]

I have to agree with the folks who say one Forge is enough & should be appropriately protected, not unlike the way you protect your Orbitals.

But I suppose I must add that I haven't attempted to play the Alpha Sector yet, so perhaps my opinion is not worth much.

There are many weapons that cannot be moved once built. Bombers, Stratfers & Berthas come to mind. Guppies, too. It is just all part of the game play. If it were too easy, people would complain about that. In fact, I am certain there is a thread with that title regarding Arc Eternal.

So we're at Lincoln's quote:

"You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

― Abraham Lincoln

Cancel the above. The correct word is FOOL, not PLEASE and the quote is shorter:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

Abraham Lincoln

Depends on your source material. But I think the latter is correct. Although the former apparently applies to some CW3 users. And others in the world for that matter. Just IMHO.

[slayer]

All in all, a pretty thoughtful discussion.

I agree that the analogies to libraries and armories don't hold up as strongly as you think AND it would be easier if the Forge could move.

However, nothing gets you into the mindset of a battle faster than taking a shot to the teeth. I lost my forge once, saw the effect, and thought "Damn, get your butt in gear and fight, fight, fight!"

And in a game, that's what I'm looking for. CW3 excels at putting me into that mind frame, and more importantly, relieving me of worrying about the trivialities of life. I especially like CW3 because a play session can be 3-30 minutes based on the world I find myself on. I don't have to play for hours on end....although I do ;).

Whether or not the explanation "works", I appreciate Virgil's effort to balance the myriad factors in game mechanics to provide an enthralling experience.

Slayer