nvidia winning?

[knucracker]

So is this kind of thing going to nuke amd gpu sales?

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/18/hands-on-nvidia-gamestream/

I probably won't buy a shield, but this kind of thing still makes me basically want to look only at nvidia gpus for my next system.  All other things being equal, I'd pick nvidia just in case this kind of thing takes off and I end up with this kind of device one day, right?

[Grauniad]

I've read about some of that and frankly, I don't get it.

Nvidia Shield is a hand-held with a small screen, right? It makes sense to want to play that on a larger screen.

But now GameStream, I can't wrap my head around.  It's either

a) you stream the PC to the TV and control it via the Shield
or
b) there is a new device with an Nvidia GPU in it?

if it is a) it only matters to those who want to play console games or PC games in front of their TVs and if it's b) meh.

Based on prices right now I think AMD is still a good consideration.

You really should not buy PC components based on what might happen, because if it happens in 18 months' time, there is going to be more sensible hardware to do it on.

Edit:  The gaming market is in a lot of flux right now.

Firstly tablets are a huge disruptor. Then the new crop of consoles from Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are all getting a lukewarm reception.  Valve/Steam is bringing out their won device that is Linux-based (saves players $100 on low-end gear, where it may be as much as 25% of the cost of a new, low-end gaming PC). AMD and Intel are integrating better graphics on-chip. Occulus Rift is also releasing a gaming platform. I seem to recall a few other developments whose specifics escape me right now.

The old adage still applies.  The bulk of a platform is not going to be neglected.  PC gaming will be around for a few more years at the very least. So a Radeon card may still be a reasonable investment for the next 3-4 years.

[knucracker]

I didn't get it either and totally blew off Shield when I first saw the news.  I read "Android gaming console that cost $300" and then clicked "next".  But, upon second look (thanks to the more recent news) I see what they are trying to do.

PCs are fantastic gaming devices.  Anyone reading this message already knows that.  Getting those PC games on your TV or in some other portable form factor has an appeal to a potentially large audience.  Steam is doing it next year after all http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/

So right or wrong, industry money is trying to pivot PC gaming to the TV and mobile.

GameStream, as far as I can tell, means laying the shield on the floor and plugging an hdmi cable into it and your tv.  Then you have to use another handheld controller of choice (bluetooth I guess) that talks to the shield.  It turns the shield into a little remote streaming box (from what I gather... I could be wrong).  Sounds odd, but it means a teenager can walk around the house with the shield shooting things on the 5" screen, then go to his friends house and hook the shield up to the tv.

Now I don't know if any of this will take... but if it does where is AMD's answer?  Are they just going to rely on other hobbled together solutions that different people come up with?

[Grauniad]

GameStream, as far as I can tell, means laying the shield on the floor and plugging an hdmi cable into it and your tv.  Then you have to use another handheld controller of choice (bluetooth I guess) that talks to the shield.  It turns the shield into a little remote streaming box (from what I gather... I could be wrong).  Sounds odd, but it means a teenager can walk around the house with the shield shooting things on the 5" screen, then go to his friends house and hook the shield up to the tv.

OK, and now where in this scenario is the Nvidia GPU?

For better or for worse, AMD is trying to merge the CPU and the GPU into their APU. My thinking is that in due time they will come out with some offering that has a price advantage over the 3 hobbled-together components that you mention in the Nvidia scenario.

The big issue is who will write games to run on a platform. A platform without a successful and popular game is dead in the water. SO now we have to look at what Nvidia acan stream right now on their 3-unit Gamestream platform and it doesn't seem like much.

I think the guys that are well-positioned here is Valve. They have a large user base, they have a distribution platform and that means that people will write games for the platform. I think the Linux-based Valve thing is the horse I'd be betting money on in this race. Nintendo, since the Wii have not been doing themselves any favors and the Wii-U seems to be the laughing stock of the new generation of consoles.

[knucracker]

OK, and now where in this scenario is the Nvidia GPU?

To stream to the Shield from your desktop, you have to have a geforce GTX 650 or later in your desktop :)  So, buy a Shield for android gaming then "Oh... you have an AMD GPU in your desktop?  That's too bad.  If you had a geforce you could stream PC games to your Shield.  Better luck next system".  That's one of the angles they are pulling.

But you are right... the biggest threat to AMD on the desktop isn't nvidia,  it's the next gen of consoles.  Xbox one... it's a formidable contraption.  What with its Eye of Sauron always watching you, integrated TV control and screen splitting/overlay, built in recording and streaming of games, already being a native to the living room.  Formidable.

But, returning to the original topic of bias when choosing a GPU for the desktop (which I will be doing very soon), I still have to currently put a little check (just a little one) in the column for nvidia because of this Shield stuff.  AMD has their own advantages, but this is one angle nvidia is playing that I don't see AMD headed in (and maybe they are right...)

[Grauniad]

Over the summer I definitely would have recommended Nvidia over AMD. However, the last round of price drops on Radeon cards and the new Radeon drivers that resolve the frame skipping issue has me back in the Radeon camp on a value-for-money basis.

I'm not a big console or hand-held fan, so that makes this less meaningful to me. And I'm unlikely to need to game all through the house or both here and at my friend's house. I'm not sure by how much I'm in the minority in that aspect.

Every time I look, the Nvidia GPUs outperform the AMD GPUs, but the when I have to buy one, I buy AMD. It's been as much as 7 years or more since I've had an Nvidia card. I've got nothing against them and will be as likely to buy one of their cards as an AMD card. This  Gamestream isn't going to be the deciding factor for me. It's proprietor y (nvidia only) so  that immediately eliminates the entire gaming community that has AMD cards from the game creator's horizon.

Essentially Nvidia is throwing their hat in the ring with (against?) XBOne, PS4 and Nintendo at the same time as Valve is mounting a much more viable challenge as a gaming platform.

Sure, make a check-box, but can you put a monetary value to that check-box? I can't.

[knucracker]

If I had to buy a GPU this instant, it would be the new AMD R9 280x.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-8.html

It's where the cliff is right now and the clear choice for price/performance.  A $50 drop on the GTX 770... and that could all change.  I guess that means I put a nominal value of $50 on the increase in performance the 770 has over the 280x plus the value of being able to use Shield (which I probably would only use for Knuckle Cracker related development activities).

I'm the same as you... I've always looked at nvidia but have ended up with AMD for some reason in the last 4 systems I have built.  I just always end up going for the price/performance ratio and AMD usually seems to out maneuver nvidia around the time I buy.

[Grauniad]

That's one heck of a GPU. In Sept of 2012 (feels a lot longer) I bought a HD 7950 for $330. CW3 has never taxed it to more than 3%. :)  But I could definitely tell the difference between it and the Intel graphics on my Sandy Bridge Intel.

Edit: I should tell you that if you have to buy right now, you can pick up a Radeon HD 7950 Core edition (overclocked)  for around $200 after rebate. That's a pretty sweet deal as well, since there is very little difference that you'd actually notice outside of a benchmark.

And if  you're building, that $100 is significant.

Edit again: Or $180. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161420

3rd edit: Based on specs, you'd have to beef up your PSU as well if you go for the R9 280x. so that may add a few $ to the price equation also. :(

[miquelfire]

Steam OS is the answer for the AMD side of things :P

Just get a junk computer that can hook up to the TV, install Steam OS.

I have a Google TV device, so if there's software out there that allows me to stream my PC screen to my GTV, I could play Creeper World on my big TV now :P

[Grauniad]

More Nvidia Shield stuff here: http://hothardware.com/News/NVIDIA-Updates-SHIELD-With-Android-43-Jelly-Bean-Console-Mode-Tons-of-New-Titles/