Custom Map #1821: numbs Creep. By: numberguy

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This topic is for discussion of map #1821: numbs Creep


Author: numberguy
Size: 192x120

[WaddlesTNT]

What happened to the mesh, and where did the field gen go?

[Ranger Von Danger]

Not a bad map, I think you missed one step in the editor though. Depending on which mods you used, you might be able to fix the ern power not being displayed if you edit the ada messages in the "text" tab in editor mode. Make sure that on the left your first message is labled "Display" and then add a blank text message with "opaque_4" as the background color. Just be sure to hit Apply after doing this in the text tab. It's possible this wont fix the problem, but its a key step in the PAC levels I've made. Thanks for sharing! :)

ps- i think the display message should be above any other ada messages. It wont be visible to anyone playing the map and there will be a blue bar at the top of the screen when you re -load if done correctly.

[rowlet]

Compared to other PAC maps, you seem to be using a much older version of the mod. I don't have experience with 4RPL but you can get lot of advice from other people who do so you can use the more up to date tools.

For the map itself, a good first attempt but a few little pointers.
1) The creeper limit shouldn't be so low. by the time you get to the ern portal you will most likely have hit the limit and not be able to make more creep, forcing the use of egg gen or launchers to progress from that point.
2) The anti creep at the end is a bit annoying to get around. due to the position of the sprayers it is almost impossible to not activate the breeder terrain which just sort of slows down winning by making it hit a literal wall. Obviously you can overwhelm it with launchers or eggs but that just forces you to sit there a wait for it to happen.

[CS Z]

Good right up until the very end where it suddenly becomes a slog map.  Managed to blow up the rift lab with blobs.

Not knowing my ERN power made it much more difficult to proceed too.

[Vyce223]

Yeah so I wont lie here, I am spoiled by the newer versions of the mesh and knowing how many ERN I have available. I think if you were to make those changes alone it would help. I didn't get a chance to see that the field gen was missing but also if that's not there as well adding that would help a lot.

Ohh and of course this isn't to be negative just, make it more playable and up to what people will think are general standards currently. It's always nice to see a new PAC creator trying things out though!

[numberguy]

Hi numberguy here, first PAC some of you are indeed aware of this just from playing and I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting already, lets start with the first approaches.
Posted by: WaddlesTNT
1 ) What happened to the mesh, and where did the field gen go?
Aa ) I started with an older PAC version supposedly from not finding the latest ones, I removed the field gen from this map but I might re-add it.
Ab ) I didn't know of how many PAC maps we're already actually out there and I made this after my first play-through with a PAC map.

Posted by: rowlet
2a ) The creeper limit shouldn't be so low. by the time you get to the ern portal you will most likely have hit the limit and not be able to make more creep, forcing the use of egg gen or launchers to progress from that point.
A ) I've watched a couple people play my map from live-stream and they've beat it with 90% creep alone with minimal usage of launchers at the beginning to snatch the first couple ENRs ( intended ), and then at the end as well.  For some reason the Egg Gen and or Stack has broken on my end and won't properly function?, even though its all the same code?

2b ) The anti creep at the end is a bit annoying to get around. due to the position of the sprayers it is almost impossible to not activate the breeder terrain which just sort of slows down winning by making it hit a literal wall. Obviously you can overwhelm it with launchers or eggs but that just forces you to sit there a wait for it to happen.
A ) I can agree the anti-creep can be a bit annoying and delays the inevitable doom that should be brought upon them, but some creeper campaign map(s) have done this to us before in both CW3 and CW4, why shouldn't the humans be able to take in such defenses as well? ( they didnt use breeders but they used spam of creep ).

Posted by: Vyce223
3 ) Yeah so I wont lie here, I am spoiled by the newer versions of the mesh and knowing how many ERN I have available. I think if you were to make those changes alone it would help. I didn't get a chance to see that the field gen was missing but also if that's not there as well adding that would help a lot.
A ) Sorry about the ERN showing availability! Using the older mesh because it was my first PAC game I've ever played. I'll try getting the ERN to work again really soon. You're the second person to ask for the field-gen so I might re-add it back alot sooner than I realize since the ' stack ' and ' egg launcher ' are either half working or not working at all sometimes

As always I appreciate all the feed back I obtain and I'll continue to progress this map as I start my 2nd PAC map with field-gen included with the newer mesh, ( trying to since it won't actually use it for some reason ).

[InwardChaos]

As others have mentioned, you used an older version of the PAC mod, which has some issues that were ironed out in later updates. (mesh placement, ERN count, all emitters deactivating if you go over the count). This also had the side effect of rendering the Egg Generator non-operational, as it's part of the newer version.

The map is certainly playable and beatable, despite the older version and the creeper limit (which should either be turned off or increased to a normally unachievable level), and the placement of the defending units and terrain design was also pretty good.

Keep up the good work, and take a look at the updated mod to see what new tools you have to work with.

[numberguy]

As others have mentioned, you used an older version of the PAC mod, which has some issues that were ironed out in later updates. (mesh placement, ERN count, all emitters deactivating if you go over the count). This also had the side effect of rendering the Egg Generator non-operational, as it's part of the newer version.

The map is certainly playable and beatable, despite the older version and the creeper limit (which should either be turned off or increased to a normally unachievable level), and the placement of the defending units and terrain design was also pretty good.

Keep up the good work, and take a look at the updated mod to see what new tools you have to work with.

Heh yeah thanks, so if i'm reading this correctly the NEWER PAC version(s) would have the Egg Generator operational.

?-  creeper limit (which should either be turned off or increased to a normally unachievable level)
A- creeper limit?- as in the height of creeper or the amount of ERNs youre allowed to use?

? - the placement of the defending units and terrain design was also pretty good.
A- THANK YOU, I almost scrapped the map after feeling messed up before I published it.

[Vyce223]

?-  creeper limit (which should either be turned off or increased to a normally unachievable level)
A- creeper limit?- as in the height of creeper or the amount of ERNs youre allowed to use?

He's referring to the limit of creep allowed on the map, generally height wise. At the end it's what really limits you from being able to take it with emitters as the creep is generally a low level throughout and I even saw a lot of cases in the beginning of the map many of the hills ended up not being covered (and some even had breeder on it so it was somewhat important... somewhat). Increasing that would help a bit. I'm sure the other PAC guys around here can help you out with that one.

Let me also give some more fair feedback after giving it another go. It flowed fairly well, after I figured out how many ERN i started with and sorta kept track (though I sometimes would not see one being destroyed but I know you'll fix that). The ending was the toughest part as it should be of course, it was the only time I was required to use launchers to blob it to death pretty much (this is due to the creeper limit somewhat).

You noted the egg launcher not working, it didn't in my last playthrough as well and I'm sure there's a decent reasoning.

I'm a fan of how you used the corrosive terrain. It should be used more and IMO it should be something that can really set you back a lot too. As well as two options to start a plus.

In your reply previously as well you mention you had purposefully removed the field gen I believe at least purposefully, and that is OKAY. If it was a design choice then 100% keep it that way. Same way some normal maps restrict you from using certain buildings, you should be free to design your PAC map with/without certain PAC aspects, I think it makes perfect sense. I thought it was missing due to an outdated version of PAC or just accidently not put in.

[InwardChaos]

?-  creeper limit (which should either be turned off or increased to a normally unachievable level)
A- creeper limit?- as in the height of creeper or the amount of ERNs youre allowed to use?

The creeper limit is a mechanic in CW4 that restricts the total amount of creeper that can be present on the map.
This is indicated by the bar next to the creeper/AC graph in the lower left of the screen. In your map, the creeper limit is set to 4.0, which means that when there is enough creeper to cover every square of traverseable terrain in a 4.0 high level of creeper, then no more creeper can be produced. Emitters turn off, stashes stop growing, and breeder terrain doesn't activate.
The thing is that the "4.0 high level of creeper" is based on if the map is completely flat, and the creeper is spread perfectly evenly. On most maps, hills and valleys cause the shutoff to occur long before the entire map is covered, as valleys get to depths higher than the limit. This is a bad thing to happen in PAC maps, because you no longer are able to push forward when you can no longer produce creeper. Your map, thankfully, is flat enough that creeper doesn't pool very deep, and the number of ERNs available makes launcher assaults a valid strategy.

[numberguy]

He's referring to the limit of creep allowed on the map, generally height wise. At the end it's what really limits you from being able to take it with emitters as the creep is generally a low level throughout and I even saw a lot of cases in the beginning of the map many of the hills ended up not being covered (and some even had breeder on it so it was somewhat important... somewhat). Increasing that would help a bit. I'm sure the other PAC guys around here can help you out with that one.

Let me also give some more fair feedback after giving it another go. It flowed fairly well, after I figured out how many ERN i started with and sorta kept track (though I sometimes would not see one being destroyed but I know you'll fix that). The ending was the toughest part as it should be of course, it was the only time I was required to use launchers to blob it to death pretty much (this is due to the creeper limit somewhat).

You noted the egg launcher not working, it didn't in my last playthrough as well and I'm sure there's a decent reasoning.

In your reply previously as well you mention you had purposefully removed the field gen I believe at least purposefully, and that is OKAY. If it was a design choice then 100% keep it that way. Same way some normal maps restrict you from using certain buildings, you should be free to design your PAC map with/without certain PAC aspects, I think it makes perfect sense. I thought it was missing due to an outdated version of PAC or just accidently not put in.
[/quote]

Response Note: Updated the PAC, mesh, stack, eggs work

The creeper limit is a mechanic in CW4 that restricts the total amount of creeper that can be present on the map.
This is indicated by the bar next to the creeper/AC graph in the lower left of the screen. In your map, the creeper limit is set to 4.0, which means that when there is enough creeper to cover every square of traverseable terrain in a 4.0 high level of creeper, then no more creeper can be produced. Emitters turn off, stashes stop growing, and breeder terrain doesn't activate.
The thing is that the "4.0 high level of creeper" is based on if the map is completely flat, and the creeper is spread perfectly evenly. On most maps, hills and valleys cause the shutoff to occur long before the entire map is covered, as valleys get to depths higher than the limit. This is a bad thing to happen in PAC maps, because you no longer are able to push forward when you can no longer produce creeper. Your map, thankfully, is flat enough that creeper doesn't pool very deep, and the number of ERNs available makes launcher assaults a valid strategy.
[/quote]
Response Note: Updated restrictions for creepers from 4.0 to 10.0 ( probably )
Note: Increased Creep height from 20 -> 30? ( or something )

In responses to these replies and rest from working on the map, I've found the issues and errors in the map and updated it, hopefully I've touched what was needed and if the height is needing to be touched even higher I will do so.
I've completed the map in 17:17m with usage of emitter spam with MESH with spores and blob(s) just for giggles. I've left the anti-creep breeder at the base, and even though it activated I barely spent a minute smacking it as I had to wait for the finished product of the base being destroyed.

Hope you've found this response enlightening and thank you for playing the map.  :)

?-Your map, thankfully, is flat enough that creeper doesn't pool very deep, and the number of ERNs available makes launcher assaults a valid strategy.
A-The map allows you to hold up to 15 available ERNS in total at the end of the game.  Incase the Display doesn't show up again that is the number of structures you may have :). & Yes I tried smoothing out the land after I slap the "Fractal ALL" button along with having the base terrain at a low edge so I can have higher cliffs later for defense.

[numberguy]

Numbs Creep
map# 1824

[CyberDyneSystems]

Once I got the hang of working with the older PAC mod, this was a very enjoyable map. Mesh was the biggest issue I had, as between it's odd behavior in the early tools available, I was having trouble getting it connected to activate, for some time I thought it was just "broken" like the egg generator. Again. once I figured out how to use mesh again, it was quite enjoyable. On the other, once I realized there were ERN available, we just did not know the count, I actually kind of enjoyed the extra challenge. I did have to restart twice before I realized we had ERN and were able to build.

Here's what I really liked;
- Lack of field gen worked well for the map.
- The fact that launchers were in fact useful. This is so rare now, I feel that most map makers place so many missiles and snipers that we might as well just remove the launcher from menu. Thank you for letting enjoy a blob or two and make GOOD use of them! They were an important part of the strategy, just as you intended.
- Terrain. It provided challenges and strategic advantage.
- Taking out the command center: This I thought was actually very well thought out. You need to first target the two flanking positions providing bluite to cut off AC supply. Blobs were key in the end game, and I loved that.

Thanks for making a cool and different AC map. I look forward to seeing more, and imagine with the more up to date version, you will make even better maps!

[numberguy]

Once I got the hang of working with the older PAC mod, this was a very enjoyable map. Mesh was the biggest issue I had, as between it's odd behavior in the early tools available, I was having trouble getting it connected to activate, for some time I thought it was just "broken" like the egg generator. Again. once I figured out how to use mesh again, it was quite enjoyable. On the other, once I realized there were ERN available, we just did not know the count, I actually kind of enjoyed the extra challenge. I did have to restart twice before I realized we had ERN and were able to build.

Here's what I really liked;
- Lack of field gen worked well for the map.
- The fact that launchers were in fact useful. This is so rare now, I feel that most map makers place so many missiles and snipers that we might as well just remove the launcher from menu. Thank you for letting enjoy a blob or two and make GOOD use of them! They were an important part of the strategy, just as you intended.
- Terrain. It provided challenges and strategic advantage.
- Taking out the command center: This I thought was actually very well thought out. You need to first target the two flanking positions providing bluite to cut off AC supply. Blobs were key in the end game, and I loved that.

Thanks for making a cool and different AC map. I look forward to seeing more, and imagine with the more up to date version, you will make even better maps!

Hey Cyber! Thanks for playing this map, this is the out-dated version yes and the updated version is already published in-case you missed that comment and wanted to play that one instead for easier mesh and few other things working, its mostly the same but at least it is up to date. While this one is 1821 the map youre looking for is 1824. Hope to catch you around! :D
updated \ /
Map: Numbs Creep
map# 1824