Particles vs Creeper- Who wins (mild spoilers)

[Ovalcircle]

If PRPL and story mode particles were to fight CRPL and story mode creeper, who would win?

Edit: So I realized that the initial question might be a little vague. I will list the units from each side and then you can base your conclusion on those. Note: the units listed are not the only units on each side. Any units I didn't list because I forgot or don't know about them can be used for this question. Just give the name and description and I will add them in.  Also, things such as walls and fields are not used because they are not an actual unit. Portals are an exception to this rule due to slip emitters. Upgrades are unavailable to both sides.)

Particulate units

1. Particles (Obviously)
2. Doppel spawners/Doppels
3. Mire-spawners (think creeper emitters for particle fleet)
4. Ship spawners/Ships (includes everything the player can build)
5. Emergent
6. I guess the Ticon defense turret things (?)
7. Energy mines (Lathe and mine cannon included)
8. The warp portals from the story ( Last mission in particular)(pun intended)
9. Disrupters
10. Particle Emitters
11. Struc
12. The really annoying Giant Bertha Things that spawn particles in a straight line to one shot your HQ ( Do the particles spawn on land too?)

Creeper units
1. Creeper (duh)
2. Emitters
3. Spore towers
4. The drones from CW2 (Includes drones with creeper payloads)
5. Digitalis
6. Runners (various sizes)
7. Aerial Exclusion Towers
8. Runner nest
9. Gateways from CW2 (spawns Drones)
10. Sleeper (Assume it doesn't kill itself in the first five seconds and acts intelligently. Includes everything a player can build, just made into creeper versions. Thor included - has alot of health, but can be destroyed with enough sustained damage.)
11. CRPL Particle Emitter (Emits creeper particles, random speed, random directions, release creeper on contact with land)
12. Slip emitters

[Sorrontis]

Like Particles. They aren't a flood. They can home-in, can attack selectively, are efficient both over land (settings) and in space.

[Xeneonic]

Well let's say the Particle Bertha's can one-shot the Sleeper CC, this would make a nullifier inoperable. Therefore, the "creeper units" team will not be able to destroy the emergent emitters, resulting in a stalemate as a best-case scenario for the Creeper, but extremely likely that the Particulate team will win. Unless I overlooked the creeper team and they have other ways to remove emergent spawners. The Particulate team #4 asset is likely to remove the creeper emitters when given enough time, and, as creeper team can't kill them (Ship factories), they have plenty of time to get there eventually.


Even if the Bertha's cannot deal with the Sleeper CC on their own, Particles defend their emitters once they're in danger, so ships/doppels etc can eliminate nullifiers simply by suiciding into them. Not to mention that Bertha's will one-shot other sleeper buildings even if you add a rule that they can't one-shot a Sleeper CC. This makes bringing energy over to nullifiers pretty much impossible, especially if you consider the Particulate #8 asset to destroy the power network. Whereas the Particulate team doesn't need an energy network as everything is self-sustaining.




TL;DR: Creeper stalemates at best, crushing defeat at worst.

Edit: it is worth noting that lore-wise, this would be entirely different, we're talking gameplay mechanics here. In lore, Creeper has proven extremely adaptable using one's own weapons against them. Not to mention the Loki is behind the creeper, while as far as we know, the Particulate is on its own for a while now. (Even though it seems to be evolving)

[GoodMorning]

Stalemate.

The Sleeper is my pick for the more stable, esp. with a Thor. Creeper can fend off red mire, making the Sleeper effectively invincible.

However, the Creeper can't leave the ground, and the Thor can't kill the Particulate generators. Actually, strike that. The Sleeper can build a Dark Beam.

Oh, and since particles are essentially Spores, it can't land due to the AETs.

That's the pro-Creeper analsis.

The Berthas of the particles can't one shot anything (when the HQ bug is fixed) save by accident, though they can do damage. Slip Emitters or a Thor can kill them, though. (Assuming Mire ~ Creeper coating).

[Xeneonic]

The sleeper buildings wouldn't be able to receive energy due to the collectors having only 1 HP. Bertha's and warp portals will one shot them. Thor will also be starved and with warp portals you can keep the sleeper orbital command on cooldown permanently, completely voiding any energy generation at all or at best the first 20 seconds before the orbital command has to go up due to reaching 0 hp.

With the slip emitters, creeper has no trouble leaving ground at all. In some story missions the creeper is being thrown in space through the rift. The creeper emitters themselves can't leave ground, but they can send the creeper in space/void.

[GoodMorning]

So anything the Creeper requires can be done over any distance through slips. Sounds like an I was here first" victory, as it is hard for anything to be dislodged.

[Xeneonic]

But the creeper can't bring nullifiers through slips, which are required to destroy emitters. While Lathe's on the Particulate ships are mobile. Best case scenario for creeper is stalemate. Best case scenario for Particulate is win.

[GoodMorning]

Sleeper + setup = player units. Creeper Dark Beam? Creeper Conversion Bomb?

Sealing Rift Space will contain those Berthas, getting the Sleeper up.

But we can devise ever-more-elaborate ways to counter any proposal.

[Xeneonic]

Well I did mention before three times now that Sleeper can't do anything because their collectors get 1 shot as they have 1 hp. They can't build anything without a power network. You don't need berthas to take out the collectors because of the warp gates.

For all I care, the particulate breaks the rocks. Good luck with your orbital in space and your creeper emitters that can't float in space. I don't see anything that the creeper has that it can use to win a game without the sleeper being viable. Also, rocks can be broken even if they're not in your control. So creeper flooding the land would have no effect to counter it.

You can have 9999 creeper on the cells that the collector is standing, 1 AC being dropped right on top of that would still take out the collector in the 0.00000001 second the AC lives. Particle warp gates would be the same.

[TLFP]

You can have 9999 creeper on the cells that the collector is standing, 1 AC being dropped right on top of that would still take out the collector in the 0.00000001 second the AC lives. Particle warp gates would be the same.

Actually, if you get that much creeper in that spot it will auto-deduct creeper and not actually be on the collecter. You can test this by sticking a AC spore tower in edit mode on a flooded spot and it won't destroy the collecter.

[PhailRaptor]

You would need a rather expansive area of land, or a very small map, in order to maintain that level of Creeper on a given tile to begin with.  Creeper will automatically spread into space when it surpasses a depth of 500 anyway, thus allowing the Creeper to spread Digitalis, and ultimately reach out into the void to reach other land masses, orbital structures, and yes, even Emitters.

Ultimately, you can't make a blanket statement about this matchup.  You can only "call it" in specific scenarios with specific details about who has what in place before hand and how far apart the deployment zones are.  Not to mention details of the terrain.

[GoodMorning]

Agreed.

(Notes: Nicant made CCollecters which work in space.

Also, conversion density is slightly over 2100 Creeper (CW3 float Creeper).

If the Sleeper is nonviable, so are shipyards and Doppel spawners, for the same reason.)

Ultimately, this is therefore circular.

However, let us not argue. Rather, if we find a seemingly perfect strategy, let us take the other side and try to find a way to beat it.

Part of it comes back to whether we use a version with SetCreeper, or AddCreeper.