Custom Map #1051: PAC again. By: WithersChat

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This topic is for discussion of map #1051: PAC again


Author: WithersChat
Size: 192x120

[ikkonoishi]

It doesn't seem to work. The first ern flies into my emitter, but the second one just floats there. When I tried to build a second emitter the first ern just started slowly floating away.

Edit: Ah they don't want erns by default.

Edit after playing it.

The ERN want system is much less punishing than just having everything shut off if you overbuild. It would be improved if you could make them want by default when placed. Also a simple counter of available ERNs would be nice. When designing maps for this mode you need to have deep bowls otherwise a Stash heartbeat setup can flood the whole map pretty quickly.

[UberWaffe]

Great map again!

On the ERN system:
Pros:

• You can build multiple buildings and just switch the creeper between them

Cons:

• I constantly forget to set the "WANT ERN" button on the newly built structures.

Very even for me, but I would lean slightly more towards the first implementation.
Since I do not need to remember to request ERNs.

[Snicker]

Very easy indeed. Much better for an intro.  I prefer the last one just be cause of the auto load of erns. I have not played to much,  but the cost of stacks seem a little to high  for this small of a map. They eat so much creep if you stack a bunch together.

[Old1]

Great map! Thank you.
Much better ERN syste.
No need to delete bildings and no need to flood previously flooded bildings that allow to synchronize spor lunchers.

[Shatterstep]

Interesting

[WithersChat]

The ERN want system is much less punishing than just having everything shut off if you overbuild. It would be improved if you could make them want by default when placed.

Sadly there is no way to do this

Also a simple counter of available ERNs would be nice.

This I can do, make ERN portal buildable, but trigger a cancel if it's selected or anything like that.

When designing maps for this mode you need to have deep bowls otherwise a Stash heartbeat setup can flood the whole map pretty quickly.

I've also seen an interesting stash-based cheese method on the Discord. I'm gonna take a closer look at the stash.

Very easy indeed. Much better for an intro.  I prefer the last one just be cause of the auto load of erns.

I've deliberately made this one much easier. Some may find it too easy, but the last one was found brutal by many, so... I also made it smaller because the other one was very long for some people. The main goal of the map was to tr the other way to use ERNs

I have not played to much,  but the cost of stacks seem a little to high  for this small of a map. They eat so much creep if you stack a bunch together.

funny you bring this, because other people find stashes overpowered. What am i supposed to do now?

[ikkonoishi]

Yeah stashes are tricky. They reduce the amount of creeper until they go off at which point they generate creeper. Then they have a dead period where they don't do anything.

If they all charge at once they will suck up all nearby creeper, and starve each other. That means they take forever to charge and they all go  off at once so their dead periods let all the creeper they make flood out so they starve the next cycle as well.

If however only one charges at first and then  the other starts just as the first goes off they will get into a cycle of filling instantly off of the wave made by the other just as they come off of cooldown. This is what I call the heartbeat. Two alternating stashes sending out huge waves of creeper over the whole map.

Importantly if mortars are anywhere near where you set this up then they will make this much harder because the creeper starts really deep.

[tomtomy]

This map is far easier, but I'd suggest placing some lines of defense that can't be simply overwhelmed by creeper. I get that you can speedrun if you micromanage, but after I killed the first ERN-powered gun with a blob, simply putting more emitters and using a skimmer once got me at 37:00, which is a shorter time than a lot of entries. I still like to see creeper slowly push against the line of defense and the wall of blue destroy everything.

I'd also enjoy a map where it's a race against time to destroy the base before bombers completely clean the map. I don't know how hard it would be to make, but if it's doable that would be great.

[fraterpotens]

Just magnificent work.

I hope you make more of the hard kind, Fortress PAC was particularly fun to crack.

Mechanically, I don't have a strong preference on the ERN. I found the version on your first two maps slightly more fun, because less fiddling with the want button. But as long as you can add some way to see how many earn are free (the one real drawback to the implementation on this map) I think both work fine.

Pretty strong preference for the way you do the mesh on this map vs the fortress map. Nice to be able to place the requests and not have to franticly try to paint.

[WithersChat]

Just magnificent work.

I hope you make more of the hard kind, Fortress PAC was particularly fun to crack.

Literally working on a new one right now  : ;D.

Mechanically, I don't have a strong preference on the ERN. I found the version on your first two maps slightly more fun, because less fiddling with the want button. But as long as you can add some way to see how many earn are free (the one real drawback to the implementation on this map) I think both work fine.

I decided to keep the first method, the one used in Fortress PAC

Pretty strong preference for the way you do the mesh on this map vs the fortress map. Nice to be able to place the requests and not have to franticly try to paint.

Sadly, this version creates insane lag if you place too many, and many people (including me) find it more tedious with the units than the brush. I actually implemented the brush on someone's request. So I'll go with the Fortress brush.

[fraterpotens]

Sadly, this version creates insane lag if you place too many, and many people (including me) find it more tedious with the units than the brush. I actually implemented the brush on someone's request. So I'll go with the Fortress brush.

Right on! I did notice that new mesh basically stopped working on "play as creeper is back" when I had a lot on the map. I wonder if that was related to the lag.... In any case I celebrate what you are doing with these maps, and the version on fortress PAC works fine :)

[flamewolf393]

Much more appropriate as a PAC introduction than the first map. The first one was... frustrating. But for the ERNs I like the first one better just cause I dont like waiting for the travel time of the ERN itself.