This topic is for discussion of map #349: The puzzle (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=349)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/thumb.php?id=349) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=349)
Author: xing (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?author=xing)
Desc:
All the creeper is getting teleported into the box All you have to do is fill the box with anti-creeper
I really liked this concept, but will have to play around with containing/eliminating the Creeper from that top Emitter.
Obviously the solution is to NOT beat on it with launchers.
My repulsors generated all of the AC I needed, but then stopped.
Not sure what I did wrong.
Thank you for a fun game.
dbit
I couldn't solve this. But then, I'm notoriously bad with this "creeper into anti-creeper" thing.
There are quite a few solutions that will allow you to get 2147M creeper into one subcell (as long as you redirect the anti-creeper away afterwards this is enough to win) - the good solutions however will be able to focus *all* the creeper into a single subcell, that way you don't need to spend so much time clearing off the creeper afterwards (essentially 50% chance of having more anti-creeper than creeper at that point after nullifying the emitter - depending on very specific times you nullify the emitter etc.).
Before digging anything out, you should be sure to look at the fields using 'R' (and having the show fields on) - if you dig too much it will make this map much much harder to solve.
"if you dig too much it will make this map much much harder to solve."
Which is exactly what I did - cleared away ALL the terrain around the upper Emitter.
Anyone have a link to a discussion of the creative use of Repulsors to make AC? I noticed for the first time in the "Annoying" game that this can be done.
Thanks,
dbit
Quote from: DethbyIT on October 20, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
"if you dig too much it will make this map much much harder to solve."
Which is exactly what I did - cleared away ALL the terrain around the upper Emitter.
Anyone have a link to a discussion of the creative use of Repulsors to make AC? I noticed for the first time in the "Annoying" game that this can be done.
Thanks,
dbit
Repulsors are only useful when the densities are *EXTREMELY* close to the maximum - even being 2145M density repulsors will not be able to do the trick (on their own) - in this case the density maximum of the emitter is 2000M, so you'll have to make use of the fields to get it to overflow (I did not use any repulsors on this one).
Hmmm...thanks for the 'puzzle' you added to "The puzzle" - LOL!
I put one Repulsor on the right and two on the left in an attempt to duplicate what you did in 'Annoying'.
The one on the right didn't do anything, but the two on the left must have done enough compression to create the AC - which flowed down and cleaned out that bottom box.
I'll have to ponder your puzzle for a bit, because right now I am flummoxed about how you managed this.
dbit
Quote from: DethbyIT on October 20, 2011, 09:53:58 AM
Hmmm...thanks for the 'puzzle' you added to "The puzzle" - LOL!
I put one Repulsor on the right and two on the left in an attempt to duplicate what you did in 'Annoying'.
The one on the right didn't do anything, but the two on the left must have done enough compression to create the AC - which flowed down and cleaned out that bottom box.
I'll have to ponder your puzzle for a bit, because right now I am flummoxed about how you managed this.
dbit
Actually, if you just dig all the terrain it will produce anti-creeper (without any repulsors) - however, you will always be left with a cleanup phase once the creeper density reduces, because the creeper will not be entirely focused onto a certain point - at that point, there will still be ridiculous densities leftover, but you will not be able to get it to overflow anywhere anymore (as it just goes in circles), leaving nothing to do but tediously kill it off with launchers.
No idea how to make AC!
Nothing about doing this in the help section of the game.
Quote from: MadMurphy on October 20, 2011, 09:39:34 PM
No idea how to make AC!
Nothing about doing this in the help section of the game.
If creeper density goes above approximately 2147M, it will overflow and become 2147M anti-creeper. I also suspect this map might be different on older versions of the game since the density cap on emitters used to be 1B, but I can't say for sure since I haven't actually played on an older version.
So this whole 'making AC' thing is exploiting a glitch, or is it a legitimate tactic with some explanation (in story) about how creeper at high concentration can become anti creeper?
Quote from: NNR_Alex on October 21, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
So this whole 'making AC' thing is exploiting a glitch, or is it a legitimate tactic with some explanation (in story) about how creeper at high concentration can become anti creeper?
It's a glitch. In computer programming, numbers are often stored in a size called "signed 32-bit", which can hold numbers from −2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647. And when you add 1 to 2,147,483,647, you get −2,147,483,648--the numbers "wrap around". So 2147M creeper turns into -2147M, which is 2147M anti-creeper.
Quote from: UmberGryphon on October 21, 2011, 02:51:08 AM
It's a glitch.
In some circles, that is called an 'undocumented feature'.
Quote from: UmberGryphon on October 21, 2011, 02:51:08 AM
Quote from: NNR_Alex on October 21, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
So this whole 'making AC' thing is exploiting a glitch, or is it a legitimate tactic with some explanation (in story) about how creeper at high concentration can become anti creeper?
It's a glitch. In computer programming, numbers are often stored in a size called "signed 32-bit", which can hold numbers from −2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647. And when you add 1 to 2,147,483,647, you get −2,147,483,648--the numbers "wrap around". So 2147M creeper turns into -2147M, which is 2147M anti-creeper.
It is actually a design decision.. Virgil chose to do this. There were several ways this could have been prevented, but Virgil thought it might make for a few interesting scenarios. And the players and mapmakers then found several other ways to exploit this.
Not a fan of these glitches. I would at least like some documentation on it so that it is clear.
Makes me think a lot of the high scores are suspect to glitching now.
Quote from: MadMurphy on October 21, 2011, 01:24:26 PM
Not a fan of these glitches. I would at least like some documentation on it so that it is clear.
Makes me think a lot of the high scores are suspect to glitching now.
In normal maps it is completely impossible to actually get creeper up to that kind of density - all of repulsors, and level 1 through 3 fields are pretty much completely negligible when dealing with such ridiculous densities, so unless you have level 4 fields pushing creeper all into a single subcell, it pretty much won't happen unintentionally (unless you're making a stupid map with way too high densities). The only map in the database I have seen so far where it was unintended and viable to take advantage of this is 'Annoying' (the name) - and since it's a map that was designed to be annoying.. well, I don't feel much sympathy for that.
There are some other maps where it's *possible*, but the amount of time it would take to get it to overflow is.. longer than the high scores. To put it in perspective, this is more than twice the density of that bottom-left square in cubic.
Quote from: Grauniad on October 20, 2011, 09:22:02 AM
I couldn't solve this. But then, I'm notoriously bad with this "creeper into anti-creeper" thing.
Activate "show creeper fields" (the circle to the left of the "Techs" bar). Then it probably will become a little bit more clear what to do.
Quote from: NNR_Alex on October 21, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
So this whole 'making AC' thing is exploiting a glitch, or is it a legitimate tactic with some explanation (in story) about how creeper at high concentration can become anti creeper?
Despite being an intentional feature, I'm not sure I like it.
However, I do draw some comfort from a number of 'real world' analogues.
One inverse example being Oxygen - the giver of life which you'd die without - which becomes
toxic when compressed to too high a concentration...