Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World 2 => Gameplay Discussion => Topic started by: Cotters on June 10, 2011, 11:21:13 AM

Title: How to dig?
Post by: Cotters on June 10, 2011, 11:21:13 AM
What is the best way to dig?

only building up, what is the most efficient way to dig? Are there stratagems you use?
Do you change what you'd normally do when terrain is harder to dig, or do you just plow through?
What is the best way to dig when you can build on all surfaces?

Don't you hate it when you get a bunch of terrain that's 2 squares in height.. and you look at that tasty line of untouched dirt, and wondering what you could have dune to use that area? 

Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Kithros on June 10, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
Well, there's no generic solution to it (at least not one that could be memorized easily) - it completely depends on the situation for me. As the obvious answer, I always try to dig such that it will use the fewest packets for the most amount of space  (note that I tend to win the map long before i use *all* of the space available, so this often means I will move around the terrain that is harder to dig through even if it means getting less total space). The entire map has to be taken into account for it though, because on a map you are extremely short on space, you'll want to dig to optimize area almost regardless of the cost the digging takes - but if there's a near infinite amount of space on the map (relative to the amount of creeper, emitter intensity etc.), then you'll *always* be digging through the cheapest terrain.

There are some key exceptions to this when you need to dig for strategic reasons rather than for getting more building space.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Krell on June 10, 2011, 02:09:34 PM
I always overkill and try to dig out the whole map for space rather than strategy. (pause game) I always check to see if each column of diggable terrain is odd or even, if odd mark every other one for excavation. If the blocks are even I try to dig every other one matching up with the odd blocks. Once they are all marked I find the most efficient way to connect them all wasting as little terrain as possible. If I end up with double dirt blocks left over I dig one out so I can use the space for beacons, microrifts, and weapons.

In the case of being able to build on all 4 walls I try to use the 80% efficiency model if possible, if not I just compare each space and do my best to make sure only 1 side is anchoring terrain to give the most space possible to build without wasting too many spaces to empty air or solid dirt.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Ebon Heart on June 10, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
Krell pretty much summed it all up. If you can build on all walls though, it's more effcicient to dig paths 2 cells wide and fill both sides with reactors.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Krell on June 10, 2011, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: Ebon_Heart on June 10, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
Krell pretty much summed it all up. If you can build on all walls though, it's more effcicient to dig paths 2 cells wide and fill both sides with reactors.
no it's not. that leaves you with 66.66% efficiency. Ever seen the 80% effeciency model?
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: J on June 10, 2011, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: Krell on June 10, 2011, 02:34:24 PM
Ever seen the 80% effeciency model?
No, but I think it's:
GRRRRG
RRGRRR
RRRRGR
RGRRRR
RRRGRR
GRRRRG

G=ground
R=reactor

You use:
    _
_|  |_
|_    _|
   |_|
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Cotters on June 10, 2011, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: Krell on June 10, 2011, 02:34:24 PM
Quote from: Ebon_Heart on June 10, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
Krell pretty much summed it all up. If you can build on all walls though, it's more effcicient to dig paths 2 cells wide and fill both sides with reactors.
no it's not. that leaves you with 66.66% efficiency. Ever seen the 80% effeciency model?
NO, I'D LOVE to see it   :)
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: mthw2vc on June 10, 2011, 07:53:57 PM
See attachment... Just repeat that design for 80% ground use.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Ranakastrasz on June 10, 2011, 10:31:22 PM
Technically, that is only 75% efficiency, or 100% considering that is the highest possible.

Edit: Yep, I realize that is 80%, I miscalculated. Though calling it 100% seems like a good idea :p
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: mthw2vc on June 10, 2011, 10:37:41 PM
Uhhh, that is 80%... of the 25 cells in the repeating pattern, only 5 are used for terrain, the rest is all reactors and tech domes... If you count, 4 of the 5 in each row or column are used.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: UpperKEES on June 10, 2011, 11:59:08 PM
Or: each group of 5 cells contains 1 piece of terrain and 4 mounted units. 4/5 = 80%.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Ebon Heart on June 11, 2011, 12:28:30 AM
Quote from: mthw2vc on June 10, 2011, 07:53:57 PM
See attachment... Just repeat that design for 80% ground use.
I learned something new today.... I wonder how much quicker I can beat barbarian hordes using that model.... Of course, you'll almost never be able to use that throughout the whole map... Until the editor , perhaps. But I do see how that could be extremely useful.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: UpperKEES on June 11, 2011, 01:07:59 AM
Of course you only need to dig like that when you want to obtain the highest possible energy collection (useful for beating ultra-titan emitters). For most maps you'd prefer to generate exactly the amount you need to sustain the weapons you need (plus some to keep building and digging). In that case you only dig when needed and try to re-use the tunnels you needed anyway to advance downwards towards the enemy and/or obtain artifacts. The closer you dig to the LS or a microrift, the sooner your reactors will be built to deliver energy.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Cotters on June 16, 2011, 10:30:54 AM
building in all directions:
Iv been having trouble with it. I'm trying to come up with a way of urr.. "thinking" about it to make it simpler. Like, i'v noticed, If you have solid chunk of ground; its like for every row, you pick a block, then dig 4, save next block, dig 4 ex.. And, like, you "shift" the pattern in rows above/below by 2 spaces in opposite, and like you can do the same thing in y-axis. (like, run-on?). I think the word for what im looking for is "heuristic".

Anyway, with code maps, how have you been handling digging with left/right/down directions? 
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Kithros on June 16, 2011, 10:33:31 AM
Left/right/down directions aren't really any different than up, it's just rotated. On a map with gravity up and build directions down for instance, it's basically the same thing as if gravity were down, and build directions up, but with no ground beneath you and you have to dig upward.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Hunter22222 on June 24, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I always use this method when not in 0 g is there anything i can do to inprove on it?
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: CobraKill on June 24, 2011, 10:46:50 AM
80% model, see earlier posts
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Hunter22222 on June 24, 2011, 11:00:29 AM
When not in 0 g
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: CobraKill on June 24, 2011, 11:11:31 AM
It doesn't matter I your in 0G or not, it's just how the creeper behaves. When in ALL building directions 80% efficiency model works best. (gravity doesn't matter) when in one direction though (i.e up, left.) you have the best for build direction up, ad down. For left and right it's just flipped:

RGRGRGRGR
RGRGRGRGR
RGRGRGRGR
RGRGRGRGR

And so on and so forth, hope this helps!
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Cotters on June 30, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
I made some pictures that might help with building max in all-directions.
The hard part is knowing what not to dig, as most of the ground will be removed. A pattern of interlocking plus signs is best.  (see the pictures for details).

If you are having trouble with digging like this, i suggest getting some graph paper. Draw out the pattern out with the squares of reactors/dirt- and the direction of the reactors. that way, if you get confused. That's what i did.... yuuup...
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: CobraKill on July 01, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Cotters on June 30, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
I made some pictures that might help with building max in all-directions.
The hard part is knowing what not to dig, as most of the ground will be removed. A pattern of interlocking plus signs is best.  (see the pictures for details).

If you are having trouble with digging like this, i suggest getting some graph paper. Draw out the pattern out with the squares of reactors/dirt- and the direction of the reactors. that way, if you get confused. That's what i did.... yuuup...


Quite nice. This will definetly help new players. Cotters are you willng to post this in the beginner tips thread?
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Cotters on July 01, 2011, 10:43:34 AM
Quote from: Wolf Shadow on July 01, 2011, 10:20:26 AM

Quite nice. This will definetly help new players. Cotters are you willng to post this in the beginner tips thread?
that's a good idea! sure, be'd glad to.
Title: Re: How to dig?
Post by: Hunter22222 on July 02, 2011, 10:14:59 AM
ok i get it now