ok, well, i'm at day 13: horror, and i can't seem to get it.... any help or advice?
Quote from: Michionlion on May 15, 2011, 02:04:25 PM
ok, well, i'm at day 13: horror, and i can't seem to get it.... any help or advice?
make sure you use tha makers & ore
it helps you get the top chamber, the other two are easy
ah... didn't see the ore... thx
Quote from: Michionlion on May 15, 2011, 02:11:23 PM
ah... didn't see the ore... thx
same problem here, I'll see if we can get the help thread(s) from beta moved over
ok, well, on my latest try this is how far i got:
(http://i.imgur.com/wGPzJ.png) (http://imgur.com/wGPzJ)
this is just after the capsule got destroyed... and i was really close. i had finished the top part too. anything else that might help?
Use 2 repulsor's for the bottom left and far top chambers. Then you can completely ignore them until the very end.
Edit: Added screeny for example.
I'll record a video and upload it to YouTube in like... a half hour. Unless you finish beforehand.
First of all please give topics a meaningful name, so it makes sense to other members as well. :)
Quote from: thepenguin on May 15, 2011, 02:12:27 PM
I'll see if we can get the help thread(s) from beta moved over
I wouldn't move these topics here yet, because people tend to read them anyway, even when not experiencing problems. When everyone finishes the 30 in-game maps in just 1-2 tries each, it will be a long wait until the custom & code maps become available....
You are just trying to hard. :D
You can reach a stalemate with the creeper on the bottom with a single blaster.
The creeper on the top can be removed by a single blaster and a shield. The shield will barely last, but it will. ;)
The creeper in the middle should be easy enough to get through with a single maker and a couple blasters. Worry about this after you built your other blasters.
And do not worry about a lack of energy. I built reactors in every available space before I started building my blasters and beacons. You should be fine.
Uploading the video now...
thanks guys, though i have to get off now so for tomarrow
Quote from: Michionlion on May 15, 2011, 04:22:30 PM
thanks guys, though i have to get off now so for tomarrow
don't forget to put shields in order to force more of the greeper into the chamber
I did that in the first mission I had shields... Figured it would increase pressure. It did
Quote from: Michionlion on May 15, 2011, 06:46:15 PM
I did that in the first mission I had shields... Figured it would increase pressure. It did
I've got 27 minutes left on the upload, so hang tight.
:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|
Uploaded it for TWO HOURS. And
"This video has been removed because it is too long."
Massive rage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it is more than 15 minutes, load it up in windows movie maker (or whatever) and add some accelerators to it so it plays at 4x, or even greater, speed. That should get the length and size down a lot while still showing the strategy.
Of course I'm guessing it wasn't over 15 minutes, so not sure why youtube kicked it out.
Quote from: virgilw on May 15, 2011, 07:39:24 PM
If it is more than 15 minutes, load it up in windows movie maker (or whatever) and add some accelerators to it so it plays at 4x, or even greater, speed. That should get the length and size down a lot while still showing the strategy.
Of course I'm guessing it wasn't over 15 minutes, so not sure why youtube kicked it out.
Eh, it was over 16 minutes, but I thought they were allowing accounts without blackmarks to upload any length of video they wanted.
Quote from: Fisherck on May 15, 2011, 03:28:55 PM
The creeper in the middle should be easy enough to get through with a single maker and a couple blasters.
Fisherck - I've tried several combinations for the middle. Maker+3 Blasters, tunneling straight through to the Emitter, going up and over, etc.
I'm having a real problem with putting Blasters into Creeper. It used to be that they could take some damage, but fight their way through it. Now it appears as though the Blasters just sit there and die without firing.
dbit
I found the way to get to the 2nd pod (1st being the easy one at the top) was to use 3 Launchers and 4 Blasters. That way I could save my Ore for the last one.
Basically put a Blaster ahead of the Launchers, just for protection and the Launchers will clear away most of the creeper. When you edge them closer to the main pool so that they can shoot into it, move your 4 blasters just inside the room, the launchers should cover them enough for them to start firing - and crucially, recieve energy.
Within seconds the room will have no creeper and the blasters will be covering the emitter.
Remember that launchers tend to fire at distant and more dense creeper, so you should always have a blaster in front of them to clear up thin creeper that can kill the unit.
Grauniad - can you use your magic powers to change the title of this to: "Day 13"?
I almost opened one by that title, but saw what the actual topic was here.
Thanks,
dbit
I could - but you may want to ask Michionlion.
i will... sorry
ok, so my most recent try i got this:
(http://i.imgur.com/3lwLj.png) (http://imgur.com/3lwLj)
i had finished everthing, and had even gotten thwe one surounded by creeper... but i won't be able to get to the last one on time. more help/advice?
Notice you've run out of Ore.
I would suggest not using the Maker for the 2nd pod, and save your ore for use on the 4th pod, in conjunction with a lot of Launchers. Try to make a deficit so that it starts creeping away from the 4th pod.
Edit: Also, as long as you have a Launcher guarding the 3rd pod (the one surrounded by creeper) it'll always be safe, so you can leave it til last and focus on getting the 4th pod.
Michionlion - I've made it all the way to that last pod a couple of times, but not quite quick enough to save the pod.
I don't think you need to worry about the top right or bottom left chambers. You have to be in that bottom right chamber by about 17 minutes or you're toast.
I've been using Repulsors in that center chamber (with the circle) to control the Creeper and get down to the bottom three.
My next attempt is going to be with Blasters, Repulsors, and a Maker. I'll let you know how it goes.
(Still scratching my head over some of these "Beta" times.)
;D
Quote from: Emmote on May 16, 2011, 02:38:25 PM
Try to make a deficit
Are you sure you mean 'deficit'? Having a deficit means your units request more energy than you can supply, which in general isn't a good thing. It's displayed a little differently than in CW1, see
here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=6170.0).
I see full power storage and 15 technytes. By this point you should have built more weapons (both blasters and launchers). Extra range really helps launchers drain pools of creeper.
At this point I had more blasters and launchers than you, and followed my friendly creeper in; digging out the strip of ground directly ahead of your current position. (Of course I had more time to work with than your screenshot shows you having left AND had cleaned out the entire circular pool.)
Quote from: UpperKEES on May 16, 2011, 03:17:34 PMAre you sure you mean 'deficit'? Having a deficit means your units request more energy than you can supply, which in general isn't a good thing. It's displayed a little differently than in CW1, see here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=6170.0).
Ah no, by Deficit I mean... when you blow a big chunk of creeper from the center of a large mass of it, it sortof starts to implode to fill the space. So the outer creeper starts to contract, instead of expand.
So yeah, I probably ought to have said contract, instead of make a deficit.
Quote from: Emmote on May 16, 2011, 02:38:25 PM
Notice you've run out of Ore.
I would suggest not using the Maker for the 2nd pod, and save your ore for use on the 4th pod, in conjunction with a lot of Launchers. Try to make a deficit so that it starts creeping away from the 4th pod.
Edit: Also, as long as you have a Launcher guarding the 3rd pod (the one surrounded by creeper) it'll always be safe, so you can leave it til last and focus on getting the 4th pod.
didn't think of leaving that pod... i'll try that next
edit: results
(really close.... i'm tying to see if i can just go a bit faster going back with saves)
well... i did it! almost... but it will be a standstill... such a relief!
thx for all the help guys
Just saying something: Tried slogging through the second chamber for 1 minutes before I realized I can dig through the big block.
I now understand why the blog said so much time was being taken in level design. these levels really are a much bigger challenge than CW1.
I build a repulsor to stop that bottem-left emitter (short range is enough)
i have tried every possible combination to get past 13........pulling my hair out now!!
I recorded myself playing this mission if your really stuck you can watch it and see if it helps you any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S7ZfpYVAE&feature=channel_video_title (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S7ZfpYVAE&feature=channel_video_title)
thanks!!!!
video helped a great deal - basically i was too soft and not nearly aggressive enough!
i can sleep now happily that i've completed it!!
Someone commented on my video about using launchers on the second capsule area and that is a lot better than how i went about it. I tried it again using launchers and it cuts about 4 min off the total time.
CW2 is easy. L2play CW2.
Quote from: JohnSteel on June 06, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
Seriously, how the [profanity removed] did this level make it past playtesting? It is a massive jump in difficulty. I spent 3 hours dying at exactly 5 minutes and 3 seconds. There is challenge, which is good. And there is frustration which is bad. This is [profanity removed] frustration. Tomorrow I will give this another shot. But If I can't beat it then [profanity removed] it. I want my money back. Yeah, I am an [profanity removed]. You know what? I don't give a[profanity removed]. This is [profanity removed] game design. The game was easy up to this point. Now it jumps to impossible.
Edited for unacceptable content - G.
There is a walkthrough published (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=6923.msg41812#msg41812). Maybe that will give you some hints. Most players appreciate a little challenge now and then. :)
You missed an s word in there, G.
A few very basic guidelines:
- By now you'll probably know at what time the pods will be destroyed (or write it down), so use that knowledge to your advantage.
- First build up as much energy as possible (and maybe a shield and a few tech domes when your energy levels allow for that).
- Watch the deficit gauge; add your reactors one by one until you can build more of them simultaneously.
- Building costs about twice as much energy per second as firing your weapons, so better build some of them before you start advancing.
- Use the appropriate weapons in the right situations.
- Choose your first upgrades wisely.
- Pause the game every time you add units or move them, so you can do this carefully without wasting time.
- Be friendly, like all of us here, so people will help you out.
Quote from: JohnSteel on June 06, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
Seriously, how the [profanity removed] did this level make it past playtesting? It is a massive jump in difficulty. I spent 3 hours dying at exactly 5 minutes and 3 seconds. There is challenge, which is good. And there is frustration which is bad. This is [profanity removed] frustration. Tomorrow I will give this another shot. But If I can't beat it then [profanity removed] it. I want my money back. Yeah, I am an [profanity removed]. You know what? I don't give a[profanity removed]. This is [profanity removed] game design. The game was easy up to this point. Now it jumps to impossible.
Edited for unacceptable content - G.
It's almost funny to realize what this guy (hasn't) learned in 1.5 years when you read
this (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=158.msg911#msg911). ;)
Quote from: JohnSteel on June 06, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
Seriously, how the [profanity removed] did this level make it past playtesting? It is a massive jump in difficulty. I spent 3 hours dying at exactly 5 minutes and 3 seconds. There is challenge, which is good. And there is frustration which is bad. This is [profanity removed] frustration. Tomorrow I will give this another shot. But If I can't beat it then [profanity removed] it. I want my money back. Yeah, I am an [profanity removed]. You know what? I don't give a[profanity removed]. This is [profanity removed] game design. The game was easy up to this point. Now it jumps to impossible.
Quote from: JohnSteel on December 23, 2009, 02:59:33 PM
How do you beat the Bowl level? Quite honestly I think this level suffers from some really poor game design. The other levels were very easy to beat but this one I literally have done over 15 times so far.
I think maybe there should be some tips in game about rushing. Rushing makes the game so much easier. Maybe modify the first level a bit. It would make the game more easy for new players to do.
Don't use replusers on the bottom chamber, this will push the creeper up to that last capsule. (I myself did that on my first run. :-[ ) You have to be very aggressive with the last chamber to keep the creeper from destroying that capsule. That chamber under the LS can be held back with a single repulser and left for last.
This was the first level I had trouble on myself. I use to take too much time on that ring of creeper.
Quote from: Ytaker on June 07, 2011, 08:00:42 PM
I think maybe there should be some tips in game about rushing. Rushing makes the game so much easier. Maybe modify the first level a bit. It would make the game more easy for new players to do.
Rushing is considered an advanced tactic IIRC
This goes beyond "a little challenge". A little challenge is good. This is a radical jump in challenge that requires a completely new way of playing this game. One that you have no introduction to beforehand. I spend the first 12 levels playing one way, and it works. Suddenly that way doesn't work anymore. The first game had this problem, although not as extreme. It's bad game design. Good game design has that "a little challenge" concept built in: Each level is more challenging than the one before it, evenly increasing the challenge.
Quote from: JohnSteel on June 08, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
This goes beyond "a little challenge". A little challenge is good. This is a radical jump in challenge that requires a completely new way of playing this game. One that you have no introduction to beforehand. I spend the first 12 levels playing one way, and it works. Suddenly that way doesn't work anymore. The first game had this problem, although not as extreme. It's bad game design. Good game design has that "a little challenge" concept built in: Each level is more challenging than the one before it, evenly increasing the challenge.
I'm curious. Just how is the game play here radically different?
Oh, and watch out. It will get radically different a number of times before you even get the hit the Bonus maps. There are zero-g maps, and a bunch of other things out there.
The trick is to not overbuild weapons too quickly, 1 blaster and 1 shield in front of the decaying terrain up top is enough for that, 1 repulsor will hold off the bottom. You can wait until about 45 seconds in to build the blaster and shield (the blaster won't quite finish in time, but the shield will hold them off anyway), and until about 1:10 to build the repulsor. After those, you want to get 1 creeper maker, once it's about half way finished start building a blaster with that towards the middle (this is so they both finish at the same time). Of course, inbetween all this you want to keep building as many reactors as you can, using the crystal energy as quickly as you can to mass reactors (but without going into a big deficit). Once you have lots of energy, then keep building blasters/launchers toward the middle, after the first capsule is saved go down to the next room (and keep building reactors whenever you can), leave 1 launcher behind and go straight to the bottom. Once you've capped both emitters at the very bottom, then you can go about clearing out all the creeper everywhere else on the level. Your weapons should almost always be either firing, or moving, and never let your energy reach 20/20 (or whatever maximum energy you have). If you get into a deficit, deactivate some of the buildings you're working on or weapons that you don't need at the time.
Quote from: JohnSteel on June 08, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
This is a radical jump in challenge that requires a completely new way of playing this game.
I don't think it's radical, but it's indeed one of the first maps in the story line that you can't completely play laid back. It's just an indication you haven't been playing the first 12 maps very efficiently.
If every map could be finished using exactly the same strategy and a rather careless way of playing this would be a very boring game.
The first maps allow you to explore the features of all units in a relaxed way, so now you've arrived at the point where you should apply this knowledge or improve your gameplay a little more to be able to advance. Like Grauniad said you'll experience this a lot more in the upcoming story maps.
Do the tips posted in this topic and the video's mentioned by Grauniad help you? If not, why don't you post a screenshot at the moment the first pod gets destroyed?
Quote from: ontheworld on June 08, 2011, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Ytaker on June 07, 2011, 08:00:42 PM
I think maybe there should be some tips in game about rushing. Rushing makes the game so much easier. Maybe modify the first level a bit. It would make the game more easy for new players to do.
Rushing is considered an advanced tactic IIRC
It's an advanced tactic that if done poorly makes the game easier than any basic tactic done masterfully. It's also essential to later levels, but isn't taught to players.
There are very few situations where you would really want to rush honestly, it can sometimes make a map slightly faster, but almost never easier (unless the map is pretty much specifically designed to be rushed). To me, rushing would be almost completely ignoring reactors and such to attack the creeper faster (not necessarily no reactors at all, but extremely few - there was a post on the day 18 thread about someone who nullified the middle emitter + the gateway and emitter to the left before the space invader came out, I would consider that rushing). On day 13 I still build a significant number of reactors before I start going offensive at all.
What I typically try to aim for is to never have energy not being used, never have a big deficit, and to have all the spaces for reactors/tech domes that you reasonably can filled up just at the same time the first emitter gets nullified. I still have a few weapons attacking before then, but they aren't my main focus - 1 maker 2 blasters is good enough for a while on the right, you'll want to add in a launcher when you get to the bigger pool there though.
The first minute or so of the game for me, you don't need to build the maker and blaster quite this early - if you're playing it safe you should secure the top and bottom before pushing through the middle, but since I knew i had time for it I went straight to the middle.
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/KZnxR.png)
Where I am when I nullify the emitter - I dug under the emittter and blocked it off with shields, and put a nullifier inbetween the shields to nullify the emitter quickly without needing to clear out all the creeper. This strategy only works if the emitters are positioned well for you, but when it is useable it's very effective.
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/ZOZdX.png)
After this room, you should leave the launcher at the second room to hold the creeper off, and head straight for the bottom. Once both emitters on the bottom are capped you can worry about dealing with the creeper on the rest of the map with no risk to any survival pods.
Quote from: Ytaker on June 08, 2011, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: ontheworld on June 08, 2011, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Ytaker on June 07, 2011, 08:00:42 PM
I think maybe there should be some tips in game about rushing. Rushing makes the game so much easier. Maybe modify the first level a bit. It would make the game more easy for new players to do.
Rushing is considered an advanced tactic IIRC
It's an advanced tactic that if done poorly makes the game easier than any basic tactic done masterfully. It's also essential to later levels, but isn't taught to players.
To me that's not rushing, just using the pause button and build instead of doing completely nothing for a minute...
Quote from: ontheworld on June 09, 2011, 01:32:50 AM
Quote from: Ytaker on June 08, 2011, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: ontheworld on June 08, 2011, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Ytaker on June 07, 2011, 08:00:42 PM
I think maybe there should be some tips in game about rushing. Rushing makes the game so much easier. Maybe modify the first level a bit. It would make the game more easy for new players to do.
Rushing is considered an advanced tactic IIRC
It's an advanced tactic that if done poorly makes the game easier than any basic tactic done masterfully. It's also essential to later levels, but isn't taught to players.
To me that's not rushing, just using the pause button and build instead of doing completely nothing for a minute...
Define rushing as you will. Then imagine someone who ocassionally forgets to do it, gets bored and does something random sometimes, and often screws up and continues with powerful emitters and drones.
They'll still be a lot more successful.
I played through day 13 while deactivating every other reactor that I built, and not picking up any of the artifacts. This is obviously not meant to be an actual walkthrough for day 13 (it's very hard to play it out this way), but the general strategies I use are still fairly similar to how I do it normally. The main differences are that I can't use a creeper maker like I would normally (since I can't pick up the remnants), and I didn't have enough energy to be able to shield+blaster the top early on so I had to play that a bit differently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPNKaycnzZQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPNKaycnzZQ)
I found this mission (and subsequent ones) much easier by noting the times at which crucial events happen so I can 'nip them in the bud' and establish priorities and objectives to meet.
1:05 Top-right Creeper pool breaks through its wall. Address this first! Note there is no emitter, so a short-range Replusor or a Blaster+Shield can cover this, but if it gets loose, your life will be much more difficult as it will flood over the top of the 1st pod's protective wall as well as denying you building area.
1:40 Emitter pool under the Liberty ship floods out of its tunnel. Not an immediate threat, but you could use the ground it covers to expand your economy. :) You should be able to cut it off with a Repulsor before it flows out but if you're having trouble keeping your energy from stalling, the top-right pool should take priority!
3:00 1st pod destroyed (if you let the top right pool breakout). Seriously, don't let this happen! :-[
5:00 Right emitter pool eats through the wall and destroys the 2nd pod. You must destroy the emitter AND clear the creeper in the room before this time!
5:00 Ring of Creeper around the 3rd pod begins to overflow outwards. Don't worry, the pod is not threatened by this but you will need to keep the ring pruned throughout the rest of the mission to keep it from overflowing again and threatening your units, so be sure to leave a Launcher in the room to 'trim' the creeper.
11:30 Liberty Ship's starting position finally threatened by bottom-left pool if it has been left unattended. This shouldn't happen unless you just completely forget about it, but this should give you an idea of how little of a threat it actually poses and why you should concentrate your resources on rescuing the pods. :P
15:00 4th pod in serious danger from the creeper flooding final chamber. Be very careful with how you handle the two emitters flooding the area as improper placement of Repulsors could accelerate the flow of creeper into the final chamber! Ideally, you want to isolate the 2 emitters from the lower tunnel, then clear creeper about halfway up the lower tunnel and then back off! If you do this, the creeper in the final chamber should drain back into the lower tunnel, which you can then clear at your leisure. Also note that Makers can work against you here and push more creeper into the final chamber from the fluid pressure, so if you use them, don't pump out too much friendly creeper!
17:15 4th pod destroyed by creeper overflow barring your intervention.
Hopefully newbies can find this information helpful in devising their own plan of action. ;D
Thanks SNAFU! :) I think this time line will be very useful to starting players.
And welcome to the forums!
QuoteBe very careful with how you handle the two emitters flooding the area as improper placement of Repulsors could accelerate the flow of creeper into the final chamber!
This is good advice, when I did this level, I remember getting two repuslors down there, then realizing it was a bad idea and destroying them. So in other words, don't use repulsors for that final pod. lol
I have been playing this level a bit and created a video of my best strategy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwHTosmzMQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwHTosmzMQ)
I think this is the best I can do to help any new players. Even if you don't do it exactly as this you should have a good amount of time to complete it still.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
I found these on YouTube... it looks good. Hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwHTosmzMQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwHTosmzMQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S7ZfpYVAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S7ZfpYVAE)
I found that selecting the remnant, waiting a second, then the nanochips and the crystal, then getting 1 speed upgrade, 1 energy storage and the cost down 20% works. Then, pause and build reactors on all of the terrain where the items were. A beacon as far left as you can go works well now. Put a blaster on the top and the bottom left, and get the capsule at the top. Put a shield near the creeper, and a maker next to it (charge, 4x), with 2 blasters. Then build a launcher, and when the maker is up to 5 chargey thingies, burst all. Get the capsule quickly. The rest should be easy, but it probably isn't. This is as dar as I got, then had to come off. It's the only strategy that works for me.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to post in such an old thread...
Quote from: 2b3o4o on April 08, 2012, 08:17:29 PM
I'm not sure why you felt the need to post in such an old thread...
Because he felt he could contribute?
Quote from: Jackeea on April 08, 2012, 08:15:48 PM
I found that selecting the remnant, waiting a second, then the nanochips and the crystal, then getting 1 speed upgrade, 1 energy storage and the cost down 20% works. Then, pause and build reactors on all of the terrain where the items were. A beacon as far left as you can go works well now. Put a blaster on the top and the bottom left, and get the capsule at the top. Put a shield near the creeper, and a maker next to it (charge, 4x), with 2 blasters. Then build a launcher, and when the maker is up to 5 chargey thingies, burst all. Get the capsule quickly. The rest should be easy, but it probably isn't. This is as dar as I got, then had to come off. It's the only strategy that works for me.
Welcome. :)