Mare inconsiderately locked a topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4657.0) that a number of us were participating in.
In that, UpperKEES said (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4657.msg23849#msg23849):
Quote
My prediction: you'll be able to place 782 reactors on your map, minus 9 where OC is located. 737 reactors generate 737 * 0.3 = 221.1 energy. Odin City produces 0.8 energy (actually 0.876), so you'll end up with a total of 229.976, truncated on your display to 229.9
I wonder if UpperKEES factored in that one needs collectors to connect all the reactors?
(http://i55.tinypic.com/n3x37.jpg) (http://i51.tinypic.com/2j2wchf.jpg)
Even so, I seem to have 248 energy. Oh yes, I remember, I awarded myself an upgrade to generate 10% more energy! :)
On an unrelated sidenote: I just found out that the backspace key in CW generates a "standard-sized image of 700x525 pixels, regardless of how large the screen is on one's desktop.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
Mare inconsiderately locked a topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4657.0) that a number of us were participating in.
Yeah, I also would have liked that topic to stay open.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
I wonder if UpperKEES factored in that one needs collectors to connect all the reactors?
Nope, UpperKEES didn't. ;D
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
Even so, I seem to have 248 energy. Oh yes, I remember, I awarded myself an upgrade to generate 10% more energy! :)
I guess you also awarded yourself -10% building costs and +20% building speed? ;)
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
On an unrelated sidenote: I just found out that the backspace key in CW generates a "standard-sized image of 700x525 pixels, regardless of how large the screen is on one's desktop.
Yeah, neat, isn't it? Saved me quite some time compressing images in the past....
Too much time?
No, actually too little.... because of this.... :P
You could get more energy by using relays, as the place you win to build reactors will gain much greater profits than the collectors collection.
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 09, 2010, 10:52:53 PM
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
I wonder if UpperKEES factored in that one needs collectors to connect all the reactors?
Nope, UpperKEES didn't. ;D
But it seems you did omit that, since otherwise your calculation would have been as follows:
782 possible positions
- 1 for a totem (0 energy_
-9 for Odin City (0.876)
- 54 collectors to connect everything (11.664)
= 718 reactors generating (.3*718 = 215.4)
For a total of 227.94.
Add 10% energy boost - 250.734
So why does the screenshot only show 248.2?
Quote from: Sqaz on September 10, 2010, 12:58:09 AM
You could get more energy by using relays, as the place you win to build reactors will gain much greater profits than the collectors collection.
You can't connect more things to a relay than you can connect to a connector. If you use relays, the space the relay occupies does not generate any energy.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 10, 2010, 01:07:07 AM
But it seems you did omit that, since otherwise your calculation would have been as follows:
Indeed. I
didn't factor it in.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 10, 2010, 01:07:07 AM
782 possible positions
- 1 for a totem (0 energy_
-9 for Odin City (0.876)
- 54 collectors to connect everything (11.664)
= 718 reactors generating (.3*718 = 215.4)
For a total of 227.94.
Add 10% energy boost - 250.734
So why does the screenshot only show 248.2?
The collectors on the right side overlap 2 blocks.
you can get more reactors like this
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRCRRRRCRRRRCRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRCRRRRCRRRRCRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRCRRRRCRRRRCRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Basically the connections form parallel columns instead of a square grid then you send one row across the side to connect all of them together
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 10, 2010, 01:22:39 AM
The collectors on the right side overlap 2 blocks.
Ah!
Math fail. :(
Hmmm, now I think about it: a difference of 2.5 is a lot of energy for just 2 overlapping blocks. When the whole column would overlap this would affect 48 * 2 = 96 blocks. Each block delivers 0.004 energy: 96 * 0.004 = 0.384, so we are still missing 2.1 (rounded). ???
Edit 1: 2 of them overlap with OC for about 60%. This means about 0.2 less energy, so now we are still looking for 2.1 - 0.2 = 1.9
Edit 2: we should also substract the 10% energy boost from above results. We're talking about approx. 0.06 energy. It's not much, but it helps getting there.... ;) Did you save this map? Maybe it's a good thing to let it run one more time without the +10% energy upgrade.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 09, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
Mare inconsiderately locked a topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4657.0) that a number of us were participating in.
In that, UpperKEES said (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4657.msg23849#msg23849):
Quote
My prediction: you'll be able to place 782 reactors on your map, minus 9 where OC is located. 737 reactors generate 737 * 0.3 = 221.1 energy. Odin City produces 0.8 energy (actually 0.876), so you'll end up with a total of 229.976, truncated on your display to 229.9
I wonder if UpperKEES factored in that one needs collectors to connect all the reactors?
(http://i55.tinypic.com/n3x37.jpg) (http://i51.tinypic.com/2j2wchf.jpg)
Even so, I seem to have 248 energy. Oh yes, I remember, I awarded myself an upgrade to generate 10% more energy! :)
On an unrelated sidenote: I just found out that the backspace key in CW generates a "standard-sized image of 700x525 pixels, regardless of how large the screen is on one's desktop.
I am so sorry, I did not think that people were so interested with that subject, Thanks for continuing the thread!!!
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 10, 2010, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: Sqaz on September 10, 2010, 12:58:09 AM
You could get more energy by using relays, as the place you win to build reactors will gain much greater profits than the collectors collection.
You can't connect more things to a relay than you can connect to a connector. If you use relays, the space the relay occupies does not generate any energy.
Yes you can look at the screeny. I'll upload another one once I'm finished building.
Quote from: Sqaz on September 11, 2010, 06:35:56 AM
Yes you can look at the screeny. I'll upload another one once I'm finished building.
I would replace the top row of relays by collectors for max energy. Even some of the other relays can be replaced to max out the collection, as long as everything stays connected. The time to build it all would go up, but that's not what we're testing now.
May you build everithing faster if OC was located on a corner.
Why... If OC is connected to 4 collectors and 12 reactors, OC will use only 0.8 energy for a longer time than a connection with only 6 reactors and 1 collector.
Like I said it's not about speed now. When I'd like to fill my screen as fast as possible I'd add all units one by one to avoid a deficit.
We're currently talking about the maximum energy collection without stacking units on top of eachother.
Quote from: J on September 12, 2010, 12:46:52 PM
May you build everithing faster if OC was located on a corner.
Why... If OC is connected to 4 collectors and 12 reactors, OC will use only 0.8 energy for a longer time than a connection with only 6 reactors and 1 collector.
The cure for that is to control the initial build-out around OC unitl energy production picks up.
Karsten, did you save that map by any chance? If so, please post it here so I can run it again without upgrades and maybe with a few adjustments.... (Yeah, I'm lazy. ;))
Sorry, it was just an empty map. I didn't create it with the units placed, I find that too hard in the map editor.
Okay, I created the map (with some adjustments) in the map editor this time (see attachment).
The map contains 16 collectors = 16 * 45 * 0.004 = 2.88 energy and 738 reactors = 738 * 0.3 = 221.4 energy.
Odin City produces 0.876 energy, which makes a total of 2.88 + 221.4 + 0.876 = 225.156 energy.
After applying the +10% energy upgrade this comes to 225.156 * 1.1 = 247.6716 (truncated to 247.6).
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4666.0;attach=1433;image)
When we look at the screeny CW turns out to work fine. :)
Edit: I just read back the first post of this topic by Karsten and he was collecting more energy than me! So relays are obviously not the way to go. :-\
Okay, here is my try. 250.2 energy! I think that is the best yet. ;D (Wow, I must be bored)
(http://i.imagehost.org/0804/My_shot.jpg)
Quote from: Fisherck on September 13, 2010, 10:23:02 AM
Okay, here is my try. 250.2 energy! I think that is the best yet. ;D (Wow, I must be bored)
Yes, but I think you stacked the totem on top of Odin City?
Maybe.... ::)
Quote from: Fisherck on September 13, 2010, 10:28:23 AM
Maybe.... ::)
Then unstack them and see how you do then... :P
Shift everything 1 block to the left and to the top and you'll collect a little more (2 * 5 * 0.004), as the projection area of Odin City is partially off screen. Moving OC to the top left is probably easiest to achieve this, which will also space OC and the nearest collector a few blocks further, giving a little more energy as well.
Besides this you have to remove 1 reactor, because it's not allowed to stack the totem on top of OC (just noticed Karsten already mentions this in his last post).
What, now there are rules!? Fine, if I move the totem, I get 149.8.
Quote from: Fisherck on September 13, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
What, now there are rules!?
Not exactly rules, but we just wanted to find out what the maximum collection would be when playing normally. When you can stack a totem, you could stack reactors as well, so the maximum collection would be unlimited.
Quote from: Fisherck on September 13, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
Fine, if I move the totem, I get 149.8.
Yep, you're still in the lead, but more would be possible as you can read in my previous post. If you post your map here it would be easy to check the max.
I've made an map to test it also =)
And now during waiting it to be build ,
i notice that i have some energy in storage ,
but the deficit is huge =P
Quote from: SPIFFEN on September 13, 2010, 12:02:35 PM
I've made an map to test it also =)
And now during waiting it to be build ,
i notice that i have some energy in storage ,
but the deficit is huge =P
Recall that OC can only send out a maximum of 32 packets. If you collect more energy than that, it goes into storage, but cannot reduce the deficit.
So since you have a storage unit, you can have 40 units in storage, but 32 are being sent out, so you will always have 8 or 9 in storage.
I suppose then that it's time for me to reveal yet another of my almost completely useless lesser known tricks... The attached map should get you to 250.6 collection after you get the 10% more energy upgrade and doesn't require stacking.
Quote from: Karsten75 on September 13, 2010, 12:07:37 PM
Recall that OC can only send out a maximum of 32 packets. If you collect more energy than that, it goes into storage, but cannot reduce the deficit.
So since you have a storage unit, you can have 40 units in storage, but 32 are being sent out, so you will always have 8 or 9 in storage.
Exactly.
And why build it all while you can put it there in the map editor? That way you can make some adjustments in an easy way. Please note that you would have to remove that storage and replace it by a reactor to max out your collection.
Anyhow: nice that you're also trying now! :)
Quote from: mthw2vc on September 13, 2010, 12:28:51 PM
I suppose then that it's time for me to reveal yet another of my almost completely useless lesser known tricks... The attached map should get you to 250.6 collection after you get the 10% more energy upgrade and doesn't require stacking.
I'm not sure if I notice the trick used, but using that corner of OC for the totem
is smart. I looked into using the corner squares, but I didn't find a solution because I hadn't placed OC that close to the edge.
And welcome back; glad to see you again! I was afraid you were gone....
He he i thought i had to build it during gameplay =P
And storage and speed will be replaced with reactors =)
So here's an pic of it after it's done =P
( Took some time , but i ate dinner during )
And there is no stacked items or upgrades used here :
( 225,9 energy )
Quote from: SPIFFEN on September 13, 2010, 12:46:31 PM
He he i thought i had to build it during gameplay =P
And storage and speed will be replaced with reactors =)
So here's an pic of it after it's done =P
( Took some time , but i ate dinner during )
And there is no stacked items or upgrades used here :
( 225,9 energy )
Even so - you "cheated" inasmuch as one can cheat in this game by placing your totem in an impossible position. :)
Oh i didnt think of that the totem had to steal 1 spot =P
because many maps has the totem as close like that to the edge =)
Anyway my energy "score" is far from the 250+ "score" =P
Quote from: mthw2vc on September 13, 2010, 12:28:51 PM
I suppose then that it's time for me to reveal yet another of my almost completely useless lesser known tricks... The attached map should get you to 250.6 collection after you get the 10% more energy upgrade and doesn't require stacking.
I did not think about this place on the totem ;/
Nice job :)
I got 250.5 when I put totem in upper left corner :( But I use only 39 collectors ;-p
screen soon.
edit: You give me a idea! >251 imo is possible! :D
edit2: 250.8! =)
I did it in editor (it was easier for me)
Quote from: Alwego on September 13, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
edit2: 250.8! =)
Good to see you're still in for these kind of things! :) Would 251 be possible?
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 14, 2010, 08:49:45 PM
Quote from: Alwego on September 13, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
edit2: 250.8! =)
Good to see you're still in for these kind of things! :) Would 251 be possible?
Now i don't know :/
You can have more energy if better setting to collectors on the map. I shed a little bit of energy in several places.
Hello !
I find this question very challenging so I tried some optimized maps with the map editor.
The rules I used :
- Objects : Odin City, Reactors, Collectors, Relays, and one Totem (so as to say the map can be finished)
- All objects (including totem) locations must be "legal" as if playing inside the game : no stacked objects, no object outside the "standard" limit of the game field
- 10% Energy bonus does not change the problem. It is only a multiply factor, so you can compare maps with or without this bonus.
My best try is the following : 251.2 (228.3 without bonus) :D
I suspect we can do even better than that by finding a better configuration of the collectors network: to remove overlapping of collector area and to use one collector less (35 instead of 36).
Nice to see there's a reason for everyone to join the forums! :)
And you're holding the record for sure up to now....