This topic is for discussion of map #9855: Inhibitor on vacations
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=9855)
Author: Martin Gronsdal
Size: 256x256
Desc:
one of these things, is not like the other, doo doo doot doot do dooooo!
You must like my maps, Weasee!
I almost made it to the 4:00 mark. :o
Certainly is an interesting start.
At some point, I would love to see a screen grab somewhere around 4:00-4:30.
Thanks for the wake up call this morning.
H
Martin: I do like your maps <3
Helper: I don't have a save at 4 mins, but the attached pic is at 2:26. Hopefully this gives you some hints!
Nice screen grab Weasee, I do exactly the same on a level like this right down to the collectors inbetween the CNs for maximum collectivity!
I should mention though, the grid layout of collectors is not the most efficient. I use it just for convenience but the best player this game has ever seen was Alterold and he used to space them out to optimise build/collection, minimal overlap! That's next level stuff :P ;D
What would you guys change in this map, except for the obvious - an inhibitor?
Reason I'm asking is that I want to make maps everyone likes and that are playable and not too technical.
You want to make maps that everyone likes :o :o :o
You big sell out!
;) :P
Don't fall into the trap of trying to please everyone, it is the road to mediocre, bang average maps. I hate some of your maps, I love some of your maps. They ALL add something to the game and are all a welcome addition even if only a few people enjoy them.
Look at Pastorhealers maps, some of them are only downloaded 20 times and only me and H bother completing them but they are brilliant and provide a challenge that cannot be found anywhere else, they are immensly valuable even though they are only for a handful of people. Variety is the spice of life.
You are an imaginative and creative person, just keep flexing that creative muscle and enjoy making maps you think you would like to see in the game. Can't go wrong. And ignore the ratings!!!!!
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 09, 2022, 12:52:49 PM
You want to make maps that everyone likes :o :o :o
You big sell out!
;) :P
Hahaha!
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 09, 2022, 12:57:47 PM
Don't fall into the trap of trying to please everyone, it is the road to mediocre, bang average maps. I hate some of your maps, I love some of your maps. They ALL add something to the game and are all a welcome addition even if only a few people enjoy them.
Look at Pastorhealers maps, some of them are only downloaded 20 times and only me and H bother completing them but they are brilliant and provide a challenge that cannot be found anywhere else, they are immensly valuable even though they are only for a handful of people. Variety is the spice of life.
You are an imaginative and creative person, just keep flexing that creative muscle and enjoy making maps you think you would like to see in the game. Can't go wrong. And ignore the ratings!!!!!
I agree and thank you!
What the D man said.
I might swear at you and PH a lot and call you all kinds of rude names...but never in public.
The thing of it is, when I finish a map by either one of you, it is with a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment.
Continue to march and make maps for you, not for us. Although very often it is the same thing.
Spoiler
After seeing the screen grab, now I know what Weasee's first Spoiler was all about.
Thanks to all,
H
Quote from: Weasee on February 09, 2022, 09:13:52 AM
Martin: I do like your maps <3
Helper: I don't have a save at 4 mins, but the attached pic is at 2:26. Hopefully this gives you some hints!
Perfect!
Thank you.
I am giving it another go with a hat tip to you.
H
That's more like it.
Thanks again.
H
nice!
good one H - a more optimal collector placement as D suggests!
I go for the grid because it's way easier to do that quickly, and easier to then fill the grid with reactors.
For most of these kinds of levels, the key is getting tons of power, really fast, so you can just blast whatever comes.
@Martin: you should make whatever levels you like, as D says, don't try to cater to everyone! Personally I like the puzzle aspects (i.e. the start of this level up to about when the first two big emitters on the lower left/right are taken), the rest is really just multitasking to finish the level.
my comment about maps that appeal to all was... an obvious joke, as I've been trying to make... oh well, less likable maps ;)
That's the ticket H, now get a wriggle on and smash out the rest of it!!
I think the start is the easy bit in regard to setting a good time. The hard part is maintaining that intensity for the duration of the game. Those energy bars want to be flickering green/red from start to finish.
Haha I'm feeling a bit foolish now...
Spoiler
I spent time last night carefully building one spore attractor at a time in different places and then dropping in sprayers to collect the rewards. When loaded, I created a moveable attractor and dropped it near an emitter then nullified it. It was slow but I took out about 3 emitters before I thought there must be a better way and, sure enough, Weasee had found it (my sanity thanks you!) so I'll give it another go later.
Martin, your maps are outstanding and I marvel at your creativity and cruelty ;) I rarely rate maps (simply because I forget) but I try to give you a 10 to bring you to a wider audience. Thank you for all the work you put into them. Be assured that there are people all of the world who light up when they see you have uploaded a new challenge. :-*
This CW3 game is simply extraordinary in terms of being a platform for others to build upon. It is so well constructed and pure that it evokes a mathematical formula for me. Something clear, balanced and almost obvious that I forget that Knucklecracker must have spent years wrenching it into being and refining it. It is almost as if he anticipated its potential and forsaw the perversity of inventiveness that you mapmakers are capable of. A thing of beauty and wonder. Sigh.
I just melted! Thank you for your generous comment and for playing!
I don't want to be rude, as I respect all players here, but I'm slightly surprised by the downloads/scores ratio on this map.
There are no trick here, no secret paths, nor anything like that. Yet, only 6 people finished this, out of 58 who downloaded. Is it because you folks don't bother to finish or is it the start?
Yeah I would say it is the start. Out of the 6 that finsihed you have me W and H who are all very nifty players and it was tight for us.
if it was tight for you, I rest my case and overrule myself.
I would say there _is_ a secret here, with the
Spoiler
single superpowered totem
if you don't find it, it would be very hard at the start.
However I am used to your tricks, and the very first thing I did (even before unpausing!) was go go round and check them all ;D ;D ;D
Yeah true, if you started right at the bottom in the safest place you wouldn't get started.
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 11, 2022, 03:02:43 AM
Yeah true, if you started right at the bottom in the safest place you wouldn't get started.
(Me raising hand.)
That is exactly what I tried to do. I kept trying to maximize power and build up enough Beams to survive that first 25 Spore crush.
That picture of W's was worth (almost) a thousand Beams, and everything flowed from there.
I struggle with running multiple attacks around the board but had a lot of fun knocking out the 20 strength Emitters and replacing them with those triple-barrel Berthas.
A note for those struggling with the surviving the first Spore onslaught: You have plenty of time to build out your web of Collectors, build your Forge, and get your defenses up. A few Cannons will hold off the Creeper but you will need to focus on getting enough Beams in place. Once you find that balance you will dominate the map.
Attached is my 0 second starting position.
Note that only one Totem is going to be used and I'm starting with only 3 Collectors being built. As I start the build out, I will increase the number of collectors (and add the Forge), keeping the Energy meter flickering at about the zero mark.
Getting the Forge online and the massive Aether flow going is how you get your initial defense (defence) up and then start your counter attack.
That concludes my presentation.
Are there any questions?
H
Quote from: Helper on February 11, 2022, 03:40:45 AM
Are there any questions?
yes...
why didn't you put your CN's in a neat row for that screenie? :( :o :o :o
;) ;D 8)
Haha
Quote from: teknotiss on February 11, 2022, 06:19:27 AM
Quote from: Helper on February 11, 2022, 03:40:45 AM
Are there any questions?
yes...
why didn't you put your CN's in a neat row for that screenie? :( :o :o :o
Good point.
I'm going to replay the whole game from this start (see below).
Thanks for the wake up call!
;)
;) ;D 8)
Quote from: Helper on February 11, 2022, 07:55:01 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on February 11, 2022, 06:19:27 AM
Quote from: Helper on February 11, 2022, 03:40:45 AM
Are there any questions?
yes...
why didn't you put your CN's in a neat row for that screenie? :( :o :o :o
Good point.
I'm going to replay the whole game from this start (see below).
Thanks for the wake up call!
;)
;) ;D 8)
lol nicely done! 8)
Yes...
Why didn't you start building a forge from the first packet?
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 11, 2022, 12:50:46 PM
Yes...
Why didn't you start building a forge from the first packet?
Good question.
I've always done so to allow me to build up more power via Collectors.
Based on your question, I'll knock off that foolishness immediately!
Thanks.
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 11, 2022, 12:50:46 PM
Why didn't you start building a forge from the first packet?
Hmm, I'm not sure it's faster to do it that way, because those build packets on the forge are not going into increasing the amount of power you have. Proportionally (at the very start) I think it's better to build power as fast as possible, and then start the forge once a few collectors have been built.
But I would have to test it!!!
Quote from: Weasee on February 11, 2022, 06:40:25 PM
Quote from: D0m0nik on February 11, 2022, 12:50:46 PM
Why didn't you start building a forge from the first packet?
Hmm, I'm not sure it's faster to do it that way, because those build packets on the forge are not going into increasing the amount of power you have. Proportionally (at the very start) I think it's better to build power as fast as possible, and then start the forge once a few collectors have been built.
But I would have to test it!!!
i think it makes sense to start the forge at about power generation rate of 2.
then you can carry on doing collectors 1 by 1 while the forge sets up, when you get to 4 start a reactor etc...
of course that is quite a bit of micro and i often cannot be bothered! ;D 8)
But here you have a maxed out totem. Does that influence the decision making?
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on February 11, 2022, 08:59:14 PM
But here you have a maxed out totem. Does that influence the decision making?
A little bit yes. The totem doesn't help until the forge is finished building, so in this case we want to finish building the forge as soon as we can. The benefit from all that aether coming in overrides any power calculations, essentially you can build whatever you want at that stage.
With a normal powered totem(s), the benefit is not great, and the totems takes energy to power, it's a long time before you can save up for the first power boost. So for normal totems, delaying the forge allows to build the collector network much faster, until there is sufficient power left over to use on the totems and forge.
Edit: the fastest you can build the forge is by about 56.9seconds - only building enough collectors so that the power bar is always in the green. You start with 4.5 power available, each building takes just under 2.0 power to build. So to keep the build packet saturation on full on the forge (i.e. 2.0), that only leaves 2.5 - enough to build 1 collector at a time, until you get to 6 power, then you can build 2 at a time etc etc.
However, total power at 56.9 seconds is 18.0, which you need for building your cannons and beams to ensure you don't just die :-)
If you delay the forge until about the 10 second mark, and build 2 collectors at a time from the beginning, you reach 18.0 power at 50 seconds - you can build the equivalent cannons/beams etc 7 seconds earlier than the other build. But of course, your aether power ups are delayed 10 seconds....
which is better depends on the map I guess, and how much time you have to get your defences in order!
Edit Edit: I'm using the non-optimal grid placement, diagonal is probably slightly better!
For this map 10 seconds makes a lot of difference due to the incoming spores and the potential to very quickly upgrade. For most maps the first minute is the most important if you are going for speed. If there is not much aether the forge could waith a little though, what's 10 seconds!
You guys just received a PhD in CW3!
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on February 12, 2022, 05:36:27 AM
You guys just received a PhD in CW3!
Summa Cum Laude!
I've been sitting here re-reading all the comments and thinking I need to finish up some chores and give this one another go.
If I can hold the thought, I'll do more screen grabs along the way.
This map is 'doable' by anyone and I'd sure like to get a whole bunch more scores (and better ratings) up on the board.
More later,
H
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on February 11, 2022, 08:59:14 PM
But here you have a maxed out totem. Does that influence the decision making?
not for the first min or so... Weasee is right once the forge is done it the super totem is a game changer, but until then it is not a lot of help.