This topic is for discussion of map #2622: PAC Quality over quantity
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=2622)
Author: Vertu
Size: 192x120
Last one was better. On this one, everything has been weakened so much you can't even get out of the starting corner before you start to get overwhelmed and pushed back. Hell even just getting the three starting emitters secured is needlessly difficult. The field gen is too weak, the crimson is too weak, lures help a little but every lure you build is less creeper production or pushing you can do so you can only realistically maintain one, maaaaaybe two at a time. By the time you're even a little secure and able to think about pushing, there's too much AC on the map and it just swamps you. And the terrain doesn't help at all.
Your last map doesn't deserve all the hate that it's getting, but this one? This one is no good, man.
I find this funny because I didn't touch the settings of any of the PAC units for worse. I simply added things I found were missing. All it took for me to get out of the initial start was literally 2 extra emitters and 2 crimson and a lure for good measure. That's good enough to get out of the staring area while afk so it's on you bud.
I can't get stash or emitters to even activate. Even after I've taken over the whole peninsula and it's 50 feet deep in creeper, egg launchers work fine but emitters and stashes don't build. It's like they're not underwater. What am I missing?
I've had that problem before, are you playing the current version? Some things will or wont work depending on the game version. Mainly custom units it seems.
Bad joke :I
Played it for 11mn before giving up. I'm sure I could have insisted and found whatever formula was expected from me, but my real problem is how unreadable this whole mess was on my screen.
Drop the planes. If you don't know lures work on them, it makes the map impossible. if you do know lures are mandatory, it writes them off and you're basically just 1-2 resources down all the time. It's a noob trap that adds nothing but lag.
I see another 3-4 thingies, space laz or rocket rains and why not but personally, they are again just background noise. Likewise I unlocked the whatever creep rocketry and, given the autobuilder's AA, it might as well not have existed.
Add to that the deathball set on random and I could see myself spending an hour just trial&error how that circus works.
And yes, stashes didn't work for me.
Last thing. The autobuild is cool and "challenging". But it's less tactical, as once the autobuild has enough resources it will counter everything, and more brute force, where you seek local superiority and saturate the defense to move on. So for a PAC map, it can actually turn it into a boring slog.
It can also work fine, of the two other autobuild PAC maps I played I liked one and was okay with another. But it can also get tedious quickly.
This was not fun to complete. From the start, I knew I had to use a lure to get out of the drop zone. The issue I was having was how uncooperative the Creeper was even when being convinced with two Fields pushing it. Crimson was required to get anywhere as the title suggested, but the only reason why I won was because of the Nuke that occasionally flew out and slammed the Rift Lab.
Overall, I felt a hollow victory. I only won due to RNG.
An interesting thing to note, I suffered from lag and sluggish creeper up until the Lab died. And then suddenly everything was flowing nicely even on X4 speed. What's up with that? Was there a constant Damper effect emitted by the lab or something?
Quote from: BrokenLifeCycle on December 05, 2021, 06:25:07 AM
An interesting thing to note, I suffered from lag and sluggish creeper up until the Lab died. And then suddenly everything was flowing nicely even on X4 speed. What's up with that? Was there a constant Damper effect emitted by the lab or something?
I don't understand, as someone with a nearly 8 year old PC, the last PAC Bulwark I made lagged me like hell and this one never got anywhere close. How are you all experiencing lag problems to this degree when I didn't and did last PAC map yet few did??
Only fun with cheese (delete their units)
"I made a serious map"
You made a joker map that's for sure. I was able to switch out their erns, delete the units any further units, sell off every piece of arg, greenar or bluite the ai had, move any unit I wish so really I was able to win once I sent 6 spores at the CN
Like you said Quality over quantity
But It's quantity over quality in the long run
I'm critical with reviews and that's how things get fixed
Quote from: Mr$Hyper$ on December 06, 2021, 02:36:30 PM
"I made a serious map"
You made a joker map that's for sure. I was able to switch out their erns, delete the units any further units, sell off every piece of arg, greenar or bluite the ai had, move any unit I wish so really I was able to win once I sent 6 spores at the CN
Like you said Quality over quantity
But It's quantity over quality in the long run
I'm critical with reviews and that's how things get fixed
I didn't make the autopilot script. I have already altered it to make newly built units unselectable.
Yes this is a hard map. You do need higher levels of understanding pac and how your custom units work with it. I do love the custom creeper structures. Ths last map had 4 or 5 and it was fun working to get to them. Learning what they did let me beat it on hard mode and beat the 10 min mark on easy mode. In this map you can actually lose. I think most the players are not used to that in a pac map. I almost beat the 10 min mark on this map with out messing with the AI units. Good map, the only reason not great is because of some bugs.
-if you let emmiters get nulled and then try to delete them to get power back they break and do nothing still eating power. ( might be fun trying to break out units that are nulled and cant be deleted )
-the stashes are a little annoying. placing down and then "planting" them at a strength( that i dont think you can change it after planting ) is kinda a hassle, have to be done one at a time, and noobs didnt catch on.
Quote from: Vertu on December 06, 2021, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: Mr$Hyper$ on December 06, 2021, 02:36:30 PM
"I made a serious map"
You made a joker map that's for sure. I was able to switch out their erns, delete the units any further units, sell off every piece of arg, greenar or bluite the ai had, move any unit I wish so really I was able to win once I sent 6 spores at the CN
Like you said Quality over quantity
But It's quantity over quality in the long run
I'm critical with reviews and that's how things get fixed
I didn't make the autopilot script. I have already altered it to make newly built units unselectable.
Yeah you didn't make it but you could've tested it. But overall I find the new structures far superior in looks than the ones we have
Quote from: Snicker on December 06, 2021, 11:21:41 PM
Yes this is a hard map. You do need higher levels of understanding pac and how your custom units work with it. I do love the custom creeper structures. Ths last map had 4 or 5 and it was fun working to get to them. Learning what they did let me beat it on hard mode and beat the 10 min mark on easy mode. In this map you can actually lose. I think most the players are not used to that in a pac map. I almost beat the 10 min mark on this map with out messing with the AI units. Good map, the only reason not great is because of some bugs.
-if you let emmiters get nulled and then try to delete them to get power back they break and do nothing still eating power. ( might be fun trying to break out units that are nulled and cant be deleted )
-the stashes are a little annoying. placing down and then "planting" them at a strength( that i dont think you can change it after planting ) is kinda a hassle, have to be done one at a time, and noobs didnt catch on.
Thank you for your input. I have been eying the changed Stash a bit as it's a bit crude in functionality. Could do for some refining but doing so makes other edges more jagged. So I guess I shall put text saying such things (since the PAC's original maker was nice enough to put the Destroy button on UI slot 7 when creating the CPack which others followed in doing).
I also plan to make it more obvious that a nullified Emitter base is stuck. I learned from this map that the outline of the Emitter is hidden behind the assembly mesh of the unit which was converted into a box parameter (a way to render the mesh as a model as I convert from model to mesh, hence, assembly mesh). I have also debated if the other units should be nullifiable.
Quote from: Mr$Hyper$ on December 07, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
Yeah you didn't make it but you could've tested it. But overall I find the new structures far superior in looks than the ones we have
I was burnt out and noticed it too late in a committed play test. I have been learning some areas of 4rpl in these maps which has been getting the most of my attention... And how I can never run these maps at a good speed as my computer is nearly 8 years old and my new one needs 1 part that I either have to wait an undefined amount of time (currently at over 8 months of waiting) or pay $3,000 for.. So I constantly play at like 1/3 speed when the game's set to 1x, making each play test take a VERY long time and be very enduring.
Ok i take my "Bad" back, but i claim "broken", because you can cheat right in the beginning and afterwards and i did it a lot, because of the sheer mass of units. I didn´t want to be sitting there several hours for little progression. I think if you cut the units the enemy can use, it will be more fun and still be challenging.