This topic is for discussion of map #1812: CSM Returns
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1812)
Author: Fireswamp
Size: 150x150
I only played this for 10 min or so. I need sleep so I'll have to continue tomorrow night.
It must have taken a lot of effort to get everything right. This has the vibe down for CSM type maps. Excellent work.
There are some CW4 niceties that we didn't have in CW3 so that was interesting.
It would be nice if the torp had a circle to show its range. Also, I had some difficulty seeing the emitter units. I'm not sure what would help make them more visible. It would also be nice to have the amount emitted either show when hovered over, or to always be visible. I get that features take time. Don't think I'm trying to add pressure or anything. Just making suggestions.
The emitter cap is an interesting idea. Looks like you are extending CSM in some cool ways. Thank you much for sharing :)
Quote from: Shatterstep on June 27, 2021, 05:02:27 AM
It would be nice if the torp had a circle to show its range. Also, I had some difficulty seeing the emitter units. I'm not sure what would help make them more visible. It would also be nice to have the amount emitted either show when hovered over, or to always be visible. I get that features take time. Don't think I'm trying to add pressure or anything. Just making suggestions.
Yeah, this map has a lot of missing UI elements; I decided to push the map to Colonies in a somewhat incomplete state so that CSM would exist (and mostly to gauge how popular the maps will be). There are a lot of shortcuts I made when making this map which I plan to fix in later versions, assuming CSM is popular enough to justify the effort of getting everything set up properly. The list of improvements I have plans for are:
- Torp range indicator
- Emitter stats on hover
- Fix a bug with stargate blockers teleporting to a random stargate
- Rewrite a lot of code that should be written better.
- Alter the Power Tower code to allow for active towers at the start of the mission
- Tune the Creeper flow/wave numbers
- Missing units from CW3 (Semiconductors, bridges, bomb factories, etc)
- Buildable stargates
- Units that alter stargate networks instead of removing them
- Stargate UI
First 5 are the bigger priorities, and what I was planning to implement for the second map, but there are a lot of details about those that make me very unsure what will or won't be implemented for that.
Update: The stargate blocker teleporting bug seems to be identified; near as I can tell something was causing the blocker to ignore z values when checking distance, so anything in the same column was found to be in range of the blocker. Unfortunately I can't fix it on this map as it has already been uploaded, but I have a fix that I have no idea why it works, but appears to be working.
Also stargates will not realize you have set them a new target if the new target is in the same column; this is also fixed and should be working correctly in future maps.
Got to say pretty lite this deserves good sequels
Impressive! I was going to make some suggestions however your identified list covers it all. Very well thought out and my goodness the work and implementation shows.
It occurs to me that the destructible, blue emitters, don't give a benefit like in CW3 because they don't leave behind a power zone. Which means that unless you need the area, you can just leave them until the end.
I wonder, what if on death they gave an ERN, or would that be too much? Just an idle thought.
It's a fun map, and definitely captures the spirit of csm. Most of what I would have said has already been said, but there's a couple of things worth mentioning.
The dark yellow emitters are kind of hard to see against the brown terrain, especially when creeper is covering them. That doesn't necessitate a change to the units, it could just be using a different ground texture.
You can't tell what color a gate is when a blocker is there because it covers them a bit too effectively. (Though I guess you could look at the minimap, but that's an extra step and it didn't occur to me at the time)
This feels like a great start to CW4 CSM.
Having to constantly click on emitters to see their power level was a bit daunting at the start of the mission, by the end it felt like second nature.
I encountered both bugs with the stargate blockers that you indicated in your known issues list, but you've already fixed them, so I don't have to bring it up. Instead, may I make a suggestion for an improvement to the stargate blockers.
Change the color of the blocker to match the color of the gate being blocked, since when a blocker is parked on a gate, it both blocks the entirety of the gate, and greys out the gate so you can't see what network the gate is connected to at a glance.
Other than that, and the comment on the ground color matching the flip emitter colors, great map, and I look forward to any future maps in this game mode.
I played this twice. My first time was 1 1/4 hours. My second time was around 41 minutes.
I just looked at how tall creeper was. If it was taller than the AC, I didn't unblock it unless the height was affected by a stargate, then I might temporarily block the stargate to overtake the zone.
This is definitely one of the better CW4 CSM maps.
Finally getting better most of the code is already there except those bombs and the numbered doors. Also for mapmakers try to keep strong emitters more isolated, they always leave doors open and the emitter making 1000 or more has access to so much of the map. Also the code for those emitters with a red circle and make strong area need the code brought over. Why torp? Just change the cost of terp using the code?
Quote from: hbarudi on June 29, 2021, 03:57:59 AM
Finally getting better most of the code is already there except those bombs and the numbered doors. Also for mapmakers try to keep strong emitters more isolated, they always leave doors open and the emitter making 1000 or more has access to so much of the map. Also the code for those emitters with a red circle and make strong area need the code brought over. Why torp? Just change the cost of terp using the code?
Numbered gates, number bridges and Red Circle emitters I have plans for, they should be implemented in the next few maps. Coding the bombs is definitely going to be later if at all and should not be expected soon unless someone else codes it, but I have considered having pickups on the map that give orbital charges as that is very simple to build.
Standard Terps can't do terrain override and I couldn't find a way to accurately track terrain manipulation by them to set a terrain override without moderate to severe lag. Once I had Torps built changing their cost was trivial and I thought it would make the map better.
Also as an update:
- Hovering over emitters now shows their stats; current format is "X/Y every Z" where X is the emit amount, Y is the emit cap and Z is the emit delay in frames. Currently planning to switch Z for time in seconds, but other than that do people have any input on the hover stats? I don't know a nice way to divide text into 2 lines, I have ways of doing it but they would take a bunch of work to get implemented, so 1 line format would be ideal.
- Blue emitters now drop an ERN on death.
- Stargate Blocker teleporting appears to be fixed.
- Stargate blocker has been shrunk slightly so the stargate colour is visible.
- Blocked Stargates show their colour instead of black.
- Level 1 terrain is changed so that all units should be visible on it.
- Showing the range of Torps is running into difficulties because of what appears to be a bug with 4rpl; a temporary solution is being implemented for now, it isn't great but it is easy to implement.
- Next map I will try having all late game areas in the north and all early game areas in the south to see if it makes non-top down view better. Also might help top down view as well by having all the areas you are working on in the same area of the map instead of scattered.
This is what I plan to get done for the second map:
- Rewrite the Power Tower code.
- Rewrite the win condition code.
- One of: Numbered Stargates, Bridges, Semiconductors to allow more AC/C flow options.
- Maybe add an extra power generation unit as a substitute for miners.
I make no promises in regards to any of the above, nor when the map will be released.